Info on allis h4 crawler seals
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=152459
Printed Date: 22 Aug 2025 at 8:21am
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Topic: Info on allis h4 crawler seals
Posted By: pinball
Subject: Info on allis h4 crawler seals
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 8:14pm
| I have a seal leaking on the right side rear sprocket. The way I read the manual is I can replace it with out removing the case. if I remove the inner plug underneath what size of nut is there when I remove the plug. it is suppose to be torqued at 140 lbs so do I loosen it up before I remove the tracks. after I remove the tracks and sprocket and loosen the bearing cap what do I have to watch for to remove the drive shaft supposing the shaft will come out easily. im hoping if I leave the inner nut on but backed off so no threads are showing I can use a hammer to drive it out. Any information will help me. never have done this but willing to try. thanks norm |
Replies:
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 12:22am
| you are talking about the shaft seal for the sprocket drive shaft driven by the large bull gear ? |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 6:56am
| Yes. I have a service manual. just wondered if anyone has done this and what experiences they had getting the drive sprocket shaft out. thanks |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 7:15am
| Find a replacement seal before taring this down. The issue on Allis parts grows worse each day and as they used unique seals to the machines could be an issue. |
Posted By: Hyperpack
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 12:38pm
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I replaced bearings and seal on my H3 back in the 80s and could not get the original type of seal for the axle back then. That was before Al Gore invented the internet so I just put two ordinary lip seals with stainless springs in, one each way. They did not last long so I just add oil when I use it. The Axle had a bolt that holds the inner bearing on so you could thread in a longer bolt and hit on that. If you leave the lower pan on the bull gear will drop a little as you pull the axle out. The only kind of seals that last well are the duo cone steel seals like all modern dozers have. next time I do my H3 I will find that type from a Cat roller and machine the housing and shaft to make it fit. Hyperpack
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Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 4:58pm
| do you remember when you worked on the h3 if after you took the snap ring off the shaft on the inside did the rest come out through the front. the manual talks about a couple snap rings im sort of confused about. I think there is just one I have to remove and then it will allow me to pull the shaft out after I unloosen the seal carrier. is that right. I haven't been able to get the out snap ring off yet that holds the cover for the nut. i did manage to get the track adjust all freed up. so i think i can get the track off okay. thanks so far for the onfo. norm |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 5:45pm
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remove the soft plug in rear case inner side - believe it is held with snap ring Dang its been 25 years back when i said ENOUGH and traded off my HD4 on a skid loader and a FD5 Dozer along with a AC 715B - TLB . Kept 2 HD5G machines as they don't need baby setting like the HD4 did behind that cover is the part holding axle into timken bearing cone - remove nut and axle will slide through gear and outboard bearing , somewhere there are shims involved also . Like is mentioned it's been a few years and when i was doing it ANGER was part of the equation along with rush as a job was in progress. Seals can be found at a bearing supplier (industrial components handling firm) if the axle is worn a new lip seal might also leak so if shaft has grooves you can get a Speedy Sleeve to fit onto axle and then the proper seal to fit that . I did that on several axles as I had bought ones that had been welded and machined but the axles lost the stress relief and shattered where hub was part of axle . I was using a 14' AC 650 backhoe attachment on machine and it put to much weight on rear sprockets when using machine . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 5:57pm
And, McMaster-Carr has just about every speedy-sleeve there is...
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 6:08pm
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Oh another thing - those timken bearings in the axles are small sized and a lot of stress is put on the races - both the rear cases on my HD4 had to be machined and a steel bearing cup retainer machined to fit the cast case , then welded into the case . Check for movement of the axle in the races - as wear or lose bearing will also wipe out a seal quickly ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 9:04pm
| those snap rings had me confused. I have read the manual but wasn't sure if when I removed the nut inside I could just slide the shaft out. right now I have the plug cleaned up and can see the snap ring on the underneath but have been able to get the snap ring out. will try it again tomorrow but I have a disability with both my arms so close quarters is extremely difficult for me when laying on my back. once in awhile I run into this where I have to pay some one to do some thing like this for me. don't like it but with my disability it does limit me on some things. I did get the track adjuster freed with the help of my case skid loader so I think ill be able to use a bar and get the tracks off and move them out of the way. just got to get the snap ring off so I can removed the inner nut. Really don't know why I punish myself doing this. guess I must like it. thank norm |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 11:03pm
| well Norman, we all love the challenge of a newly purchased machine, but there are some aggravating things like snap rings. I take a long thin blade flat screw driver and small hammer and try driving the blade tip under the end or the snap ring. once removed then you can take the nut with keeper washer off. I think it will push out the sprocket side pretty easy. I think you also will have to remove the bottom pan in order to push the bull gear up to slide pin through it on re-assemble . |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 7:40am
| Your right on that randall. been looking for another h4 since I got my first one. don't really use it much but I do like them and this on was close and the guy seemed pretty honest. my problem with the snap ring underneath is my arms. every since I got that virus I don't have one good arm. my left arm in close quarters is almost non usable. hour meter has 2200 hours and works. The diesel motor seems to run very well. brakes works but not sure about clutche yet. got to fix thi seal first before I can take it out and see what it will do. I think by whats been said it will come out easiser than I though once I get the snap ring, plug and nut off. haven't figured out away to use the skid loader to unloosen the nut. I will try today to get the snap ring off but if I cant I will have to find some one to come take it off for me. Looking outside it looks as though it might rain. sure hope so. we are over 10 inches behind in this area. haven't heard of anyone getting a second cutting on there hay. feel for the farmers in this area. been a bad summer for them. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 10:01am
| How bad is the seal leaking ? I know owners that have went to a much thicker gear oil and stopped the leaking. |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 12:40pm
| when I went to look at it the fellow started it up and drove it some. sounded good and everything looked okay. because of my previous experience I looked over the rear sprockets very carfefully an they looked fine. In our conversation afterwards I just thought about the oil in the final drives He said he had no idea--possibly a bad red flag. when I pulled it into the barn I checked and there was hardly any in either. when I filled the right side oil came out of seal so my main concern is also the bearings. I could live with the oil leak but the berings concern me. if I get it apart I will replace the bearings and seals and I will have my piece of mind what ever is left of it. thanks norm |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 1:55pm
| ok norm, if it has been ran low on oil and the bearings are bad, you will need to look at the other bearings in the top of the final case. they would require removal of the clutches to repair these. Hope enough oil circulated to keep all lubed. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 3:51pm
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Replacing bearings is kind of ??? Lower units take the most stress and this is where case failure takes place - upper is just a small pinion shaft but when bad teeth on lower meet upper your talking BIG MONEY to fix . Lower leak can be caused by failed bearings and outboard case failure - that cost me $600 to just have case bored and new insert made to hold bearing . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 9:08pm
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Wire-fencing wrapped around a sprocket axle will get a seal also. Poly twine can too. HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:24am
| The Allis Bladder style Neoprene compressible donut was superior to duo-cone seals as would take up slight bore/alignment imperfections and more or less grow into wear over time. I have not seen anything that does as good with as few substantial component parts before or since. Closest other would be valve stem packing but that was rawhide and would over time bio-degrade and could not take constant hard compression as the neoprene did. |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 8:00am
| The h4 gasser I bought a few years back when I looked at it in the rain and cold I didn't notice the right rear sprocket leaning some. it worked pretty well. so when he delivered it it started it up and drove it into the barn but had noticed it when I did. when I bought it I sort of thought if I spend 1000 dollars to get it up in good running order I would be satisfied. OOPS--BAD RIGHT REAR CASING AND A GEAR. THERE went my 1000 bucks and I knew I still needed a roller and rear sprockets. Managed to do all the work myself except I had a friend of mine to install new bearings, seals in the case. Put new clutch and bands in at the same time. So yes it can be expensive but except for a upper roller seal leaking it runs good with no leaks. on this one I am thinking if I get by with 1000 dollars to get it up and running good I will be satisfied. I have all the manuals but some times I get a little confused. that's why I ask questions on here. most folks has been very good about helping me with that and I really thank those people as there are some people on here that really are good with this stuff. now I will have to get some one to take this lower drive out as I tried yesterday to work on the snap ring but hard to take it out laying under the dozer but you only have one decent arm to use. one good thing this morning we are getting some rain. that in iself is making my day as it is extememly dry here. |