11-B Re-power Revisited
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=145133
Printed Date: 09 May 2024 at 10:32pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 11-B Re-power Revisited
Posted By: Lazyts
Subject: 11-B Re-power Revisited
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2017 at 6:08pm
| Thinking of re-powering an 11-B with the 426 engine, just because parts are available for that size. I'm thinking the bell housing and flywheel will fit from the 11000, but not sure- does anybody know? |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2017 at 9:25pm
| Be a little under powered won't it? Doubt anything is common to those two engins |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 6:35am
| The 7G-B was a repower to the 3500 series engine. They had some issues and had to change the converter type but in all they worked well. Cannot see why it would not work for the 11B. I wonder if a GB converter could be had maybe the bellhousing and flywheel to make the conversion work simpler? |
Posted By: R.KYLE
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 10:08pm
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MAYBE AC FOLKS DO NOT LIKE THIS BUT I AM REPLACING ENGINE IN HD11F WITH 471 DETROIT . PARTS FOR DETROIT EASY TO GET AND LESS MONEY. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 7:43pm
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Seems the Detroit power is the way to go - seen a 17 with a 8V-71 out in western MN - now that was a nice rig - they had street pads on it - rubber booties - and guy said his dad used it in a couple local parades - yes it had Chrome twin straight stacks on it . A 6V-53 would also be a good power source : 6V n40 inj-172 hp @ 2800 rpm. With an N50 it is 210 HP. 53 T engine with 5C50 is rated at 230 ho @2800 rpm while 5C60 is rated at 280 @2500 rpm. Marine ratings are a little better: N engine w/ 40 inj is 148 @2400 rpm T engine with N75 is 320 @ 2800 rpm. Another section gives this: 6VN weigh's 1485 lbs with range of hp 160 to 210. 53T weigh's 1695 and is rated at 210 to 300. All these #'s are factory settings and a 'dry weight'.
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 12:25am
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Hi Lazyts In Norms Allis industrial book on page 78 and page 268 it shows Allis did fit the 3500 engine in HD11 dozers for the Air force It was rated at 143 flywheel horsepower at 2050 rpm Regards steve
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Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 2:41am
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https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/10235189/allis-chalmers-hd11" rel="nofollow">   13 https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/10235189/allis-chalmers-hd11" rel="nofollow - ALLIS-CHALMERS HD11 ROPS CANOPY WITH REAR WINCH, ALLIS CHALMER ENGINE WITH A SKIP, UNDERCARRIAGE 50%, NEW FRONT IDLER, HOUR METER NOT WORKING, NEW FRONT IDLER For Sale Price: USD $9,500 Serial Number: 82Y14790 Condition: Used Stock Number: 2132 4M Iron St. George, South Carolina Phone: tel:8439012470" rel="nofollow - +1 843-901-2470 https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/watchlist/add/listing/10235189?to=%2flistings%2fconstruction-equipment%2ffor-sale%2flist%2f%3fmanu%3dallis-chalmers%26mdlgrp%3dhd11%26errinfo%3derror%26err%3d1" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 2:42am
| https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/10235189/allis-chalmers-hd11" rel="nofollow - allis-chalmers-hd11 |
Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 2:44am
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Trev This one has the 3500 engine in it ?
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Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 3:48pm
Yeah, Steve, looks like the one. I wonder if that is one of the units mentioned in the book- looks like it had a winch/ crane setup on the back, just like he wrote about? Would be from the right time period- 1970- looks good. I was thinking about re- powering my latest 11B with one of those, as the engine is seized, but I'm not sure if the rest of the tractor is worth the work now, might be better used as a donor. 
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Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 5:12pm
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Yes I think you are right ,on the pic with the sprocket there is green paint underneath the yellow and the left hand engine pic is green paint on the radiator brace ? Mate I love the workshop pic Looks tidy and warm in there ! Its a hard call wether to fix or not sometimes she looks alright in the pic I think the 11000 engines are finished no more engine kits ect
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Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 8:25pm
Yeah, the time for rebuilding those 11000s with new parts has come and gone, seems like. I put a combine engine in one, but they are no better for parts, actually worse in some ways, as there weren't that many made.  There's lots of good parts on this one yet, I really like the "western style" canopy with the bull horn mounts- you can pull the radiator without messing with the sweeps. I want to use that canopy for sure, trying to decide whether to fix this one, thought of getting one of those standard shift ag crawlers and swapping over the hardnose and hydraulics... would make a real good tractor for a breaking disk.
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Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:54pm
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I would look into the 6BT Cummins, you can buy gen 1 6BT 12 valve with the VC pump takeouts for little or nothing, it might be a bit small, capable of 300 horse 600 ft lbs of torque @ 3000 rpms, but I don't know what that would be at 1800rpms. The best thing would be the 6CT 8.3 Cummins, the 6BT's big brother, they too are plentiful. I believe that Cummins makes a kit to install an 8.3 in an 11 with a #2 SAE bell housing adapter. Don't worry about the "P'' injection pump, it is not necessary (don't let them fool you) unless you want to make 1400 HP, the VC pump is just as good if not better, cheaper, easier, it has an advance, and easy to rebuild if necessary, a very simple pump like the Roosa Master. I put the 6V-71 in my 11 (see my thread), had I not had the Detroit engine already I would have gone with the 8.3, it would make a killer tractor and parts will always be available and you won't need earplugs. Tad |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 7:23pm
Yeah Tad, I've looked at those 8.3s, thought they would be perfect. I was working on a TD15E last summer, which has the Dresser 8.3 (Cummins), and you're right- they're pretty quiet. Problem is that I get too cheap to make one of those a reality. Number 6 rod bearing turned in the engine on this one.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 7:45pm
| Time to find a crank, a rod and rebuild! |
Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 10:07pm
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That is bad but not as bad as spinning a main, it is repairable, I have welded journals that were too far under to clean up, One in an HD 6 an AC7000 wheel tractor and a John Deere 20 series I don't remember the correct model number but a four cylinder, and several Wisconsins and took them to the local grinder and had them ground, no problem with any of them but they were all rod journals. I have welded the thrust main on a small block chevy, turned it in the lathe to get it close and then had it ground as well. Why did it spin is the question. The motor has to come out but AC built these tractors so they are easy to work on, that is why I switched to AC. You will probably have more in a rebuild than a repower. Like I said 8.3 or even a DT466 they are very similar engines or an L10 Cummins a bit large but could be de-rated or if you want to go totally bonkers do this. Tad http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/topic28788.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/topic28788.html |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 10:42am
|
I have an extra crank, still standard size, and I found a set of bearings on Ebay a while back, but the rest of the rebuild parts are scarce. The rod spun because the owner lent the machine to a neighbour, who dumped the machine face down into a ditch. The engine seized up, but later came free, at which point they dumped an extra pail of oil into the engine and started it again, with hopes of using the winch to free the tractor. Then she seized up again, this time for good.
I don't want a Detroit, but I have looked at a couple of 745C loaders with JD engines. A couple of local gravel outfits had them. The 945s were re-powered with 855 Cummins (and a 21C dozer as well), the 745s with 466 John Deere engines. I also saw an HD11 advertised with a JD engine some time ago. I'll probably go the rebuilt route, just because of the economy of using parts I already have. Story of my donor engine: Injection pump quit, (Roosa Master, I think the shaft broke) so owner had it repaired at considerable cost, then mechanic installed it one tooth off (injection pump turns as you install it due to diagonal gears). Owner knew something wasn't right, but was anxious to use it, so it ran for a few hours like that until it burned a hole through #4 piston. This is the machine that got the N7 engine.
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Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 4:15pm
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Just curious but how plentiful are engine parts for the 16000 engine. I have a HD16DC. 5272 serial number making it a 1961. No internal issues that I know of but wondering how easy to get parts for the 16000. |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 4:24pm
| SHOULD'T BE BAD FOR PARTS |
Posted By: walnut1
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:46pm
| I inquired about parts last month to rebuild a 10000 in an old 11S, everything was readily available except the main bearings. |
Posted By: Dswall
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 10:16pm
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I have a few sets of NOS main bearings if anyone needs a set. ------------- Dustin in CA |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 12:52pm
| Do you have the part number for the main bearings? Are they for the MK2 or for the earlier models? |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 12:53pm
Time to do a full inspection and decide what to do...
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Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:00pm
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I sure wouldn't have the guts, tools, ability or knowledge to do this job. My hat is off to you and all of you whom dive in and do open heart surgery on these great pieces of history. |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:19pm
| Agkits sells the main bearings in .10 over |
Posted By: Dswall
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 9:40pm
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Lazyts I’ll check bearings tomorrow. Do you have part numbers? ------------- Dustin in CA |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:46am
unfortunately the 16000 is a bit of an oddball. they changed to the 1600H in 62 or so. the early 16000 has a 3 valve head instead of the 4 like later engines but that is no big issue, a later head can be installed. the issues are with the crank journals. 16000 has slightly smaller rod and main journals from the later 1600H and the connecting rods are slightly longer with a shorter piston comp height than later engines. 16000H and up use a bit shorter rod and a taller piston and a larger wrist pin. when I overhauled my 16000 engine I found a set of bearings in Puerto Rice after searching high and low. Pistons are not available so I reused mine, luckily they were still in spec. Installed new rings and sleeves. had wristpins oversized .010 and honed pin bushings and piston pin hole to fit. thankfully heads were redone not long before I got the machine. all this can be verified in your service manual by engine serial #. just take a look in the specifications/tolerances section
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
jerbob wrote:Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 9:56am
| The AC part number for the standard kit is 74322208. I think the Clevite number is MS1619P. Then the under sized ones would be MS1619P-10, -20 and so on. |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 10:03pm
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I can't find engine parts anywhere- the only thing I can find is the piston rings. Looks like I'm forced to do it on the cheap or abandon the engine. I've tried Agkits, Jobbers, Illini, Minnpar, etc.. everyone just says "obsolete"
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 10:51pm
| New pistons and sleeves can be made but are not cost effective.(unaffordable) |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 6:22am
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Thank you Cal. Impressive information. Curious how you have picked up so much knowledge on the AC tractors. I am a novice having just picked up my first AC machine this past September. Thank you. |
Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 6:36am
https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/docviewer/aucdoc/041.JPG?auc=1159103&docid=10392009" rel="nofollow - 041. Auction #1159103 - Generator: Pacific Diesel Co./Allis-Chalmers, 11000 (14-2447 #16 DFW) BH (E13) |
Posted By: Dswall
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 9:33am
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I have set of pistons part number 74061541 I have one piston sleeve combo but missing o rings and rings. Still looking for bearing ------------- Dustin in CA |
Posted By: ac_sd
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 6:38pm
|
Hoover Tractor and Engine in Woodlands, CA (no longer in Business) did a re-power of HD-11AG's using Cummins repower that worked out very well !! It was done along with UC Davis AG Department !! The DD 4-71N should be very desireable as the HD-9 used the 4-71 for power and !! |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 6:49pm
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Those pistons would be the deep cup style from the earlier machines, I need the shallow cup pistons for the later engines. I did locate 3 pistons, but no sleeves yet. I would be interested in that sleeve... So far I've got the main and rod bearings, gaskets, piston rings, water pump, all the bearings to rebuild the fan pulley, tension pulley and accessory drive, front and rear seals, etc. I've got one really scored sleeve in the engine I'm putting back together (where piston broke), that engine was rebuilt in the 80's I think, has 9200 hours on it. The other one has 7600 hours on it according to the meter, was never opened as far as I can tell, still has original bearings, date code 9-76, cylinders very glazed.
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 7:54am
well to be honest I didn't know enough when I bought the machine or I might have done differently, but as It went I had to learn and figure out how to fix it or I would have had a big boat anchor ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 1:32pm
So I ended up putting the engine together, new rings and honed the old liners. I found liners after I had already put the engine together! It ran for 20 hours, then broke another piston.. I just opened it up, put another used piston in the hole with new rings- that hole (#5) is pretty scored. Ran for 100 hours, and injection pump quit, now got another 200 plus with no more problems, slowly working the "bugs" out. Time for "new" shoes this winter...
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Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 1:35pm
Also time to change dozers and add new cutting edge..
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Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 1:51pm
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Excellent work Trev. May she run smoothly from now on. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 3:53pm
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Great work. ------------- HD16DC, Bobcat 863 Turbo, Oliver 1855, John Deere 855, |
Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 2:22pm
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is somethings amazing things that show up on ebay last year i typed in the part # for a 11000 liner and a dozen showed up on 'mikes garage' at $82. I bought 7 and my HD6 mate peter oflaherty bought 4. gotta grab all these 'unobtainium' items when they suddenly appear. ! Minnpar still had head gasket kits for HD11s, but ring groups all got bought up, got a set though for for me luckiy ------------- tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 8:11pm
| Yeah, I ended up getting my rings from "mikesgarage"- MinnPar showed stock, but he was cheaper... These old warehouse finds are getting more scarce all the time. I have several boxes full of miscellaneous "NOS" parts etc that I have been hoarding- it gets almost ridiculous after a while. I took an old HD11EP in trade a few years ago, and it came with a whole lot of brand new parts, including final drive gears and bearings- that was pretty cool. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 8:29pm
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I have no first hand knowledge of the 11B motor, but Hastings makes a lot of piston rings... and if they don't list a motor, they have a spec page by OD, ID and thickness. https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/ring-finder" rel="nofollow - https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/ring-finder ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 8:34pm
| Right- I've used Hastings too- 2C7216 |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:04am
 
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Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 5:51pm
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She's all good Trev. Well done. |
Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 4:31am
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Nice job on the engine covers she looks good mate |
Posted By: R.KYLE
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 8:33pm
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TRACTOR LOOKS VERY NICE. I CHANGED MY OLDER HD11 TO AN IN LINE 6-71 AND AM VERY PLEASED WITH IT. |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 9:00pm
 Here is another HD11 I repowered with the 685 combine engine this winter.
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Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 12:21pm
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Both your 11 s look great; cheers for sharing Trev ------------- tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 8:55pm
| The EP is not mine, but I did own it at one time. They have their way of coming back to me for "doctorin'" ... |
Posted By: macrossvfx
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 12:35am
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Hello all, First of all, sorry for my broken English, I am French and havn't practiced since I left school (25 years ago now). I have a Fiat Allis 745c wheel loader with an Allis Chalmers 11000 mark II engine in it. This engine, stopped long ago, has one of its six cylinders that needs replacement. Up to now, I have been unable to find a single liner kit that would include one liner, one piston, its rings and the liner O-rings. I finally managed to find another 11000 engine I could retrieve a reasonnably good used liner piston and rings but haven't bought it yet. Then I found this forum. Do you have an idea where I could get, at best, one new liner kit, even aftermarket, or at least liner O-rings, please ? My engine is type I. https://www.casimages.com/i/210106073925503369.png.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.casimages.com/i/210106073925503369.png.html Btw, happy new year and nice day to every one. Jean |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 5:07am
| HI I maybe able to help you with a used piston 4336512 with rings on and a linner or could check with friend if he still have a new spair kit linner piston |
Posted By: macrossvfx
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 6:23am
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Hello Gemdozer, Thank you very much for your answer. I could find a good used piston+rings and liner here in my old Europe but what I can't find are the liner bottom O'ring seals. These last are the crucial parts I need so I decide to begin replacement. So I would gladly buy a whole liner kit if these O'rings are included in it. My engine references are : 11000 mkII 4321428
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Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 9:54pm
| Liner o-rings are 74337972, 74359869 and 74359870. Available from minnpar.com or through AGCO. Also saw them on Ebay. |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 11:19am
| You better ckeck MINNPAR if they have the bottom rings mine on liner are dry and should be no more good. |