I took a set of rocker arms in and had the radius's (radii?) reground, they come out as good as new.

 

If you take the rocker shaft off, loosen all four nuts evenly. The rocker shaft is hollow, and breaks easily, if it isn't broken already.

It does have the slotted bolt for a flat blade screwdriver with locking nuts like every solid lifter engine I have ever seen. Let me get some daylight to work with.

 

 

 

Not sure if it pertains to what you are doing, but its food for thought.

I won’t know about the carb for a few days as it is being shipped from California to Arkansas. During the last disassembly I coated the inside of the float bowl with JB Weld in an attempt to seal the crackS, which failed as gas was dripping from the thing from at least two places not involving gaskets. Trust me this old carb has had it. It is losing vacuum somehow and I am done messing with it. I ain’t made of money, but I want a tractor that will start when asked. A new/rebuilt mag is also going to happen as the battery and coil currently employed is Jerry rigging at its finest. Along with new rear rims and tires. It’s like any other restoration. I will have far more invested in the old B than it is worth when I am done. This is a labor of love, and we all know the silly things we do for love.

From what I can see the valve stem and rocker contact points are as they are supposed to be. The engine hasn’t run much since it had a complete rebuild. The plan is to get out this morning and get pictures of the entire rocker assembly from a couple angles, pull the thing and do some careful grinding with my Dremel. I am also going to drain the 30+ year old oil out. I had hoped to get the block warmed up, but a couple days dripping should get that tar-like goop out just as well. I have zero confidence that there is any lubrication left in that junk. I may refill the crankcase with diesel and spin the devil out of it and drain that too.

Images removed

That is one sharp looking rocker assembly! Wow!!

Ya gotta remember that the rebuild was done sometime back about 1962-63, and my father-in-law isn’t a master mechanic. He was the senior lineman for Southwestern Bell. The shop that did the head work wasn’t a tractor shop and just tightened up the combustion sealing. Since the shop didn’t have the engine, and probably never saw a B head before or after this one I can live with the recessed valves. As long as the tractor ran without killing mosquitoes he was happy. Yes, shimming up the rocker stand is the proper method, and there is adjustment room for this solution. I don’t know if the head was decked or not. I just think some careful grinding will give me the clearance needed. If the grinding doesn’t work I will look for the shims to get the rocker/valve stem setting correct.

Is it possible to adjust the rocker spacing to center them on the valves?

As for the water, it may be condensation, but it may do well to get the cooling system water tight, fill it and pressurize it and inspect with the oil pan off to see if there is any seepage.

By way of encouragement, I just got a B that was my Dad's running and running well after sitting for several years.  A cylinder had rusted due to sitting in a humid barn basement with the exhaust valve open on that cylinder.  I did not have to do a complete rebuild.  These things can be challenging, but if you are committed, you can get good results. 

#1 - thanks for getting Dick L interested!  

he is always a great source of practical, not-in-any-manual ways to get things done.  I'm learning plenty from this thread.

#2 - is it possible that water got into the oil pan before it was "parked"?

seems an awful lot of water for condensation.

 

 

forgot about your stuck valve... put penetrant on the stem and tap on the top with a small hammer. It should BOUNCE up and down, not stick....... maybe it has been that way for years, maybe it got small corrosion on it and bent the pushrod when you first cranked it ?  I have seen stems loosen up by tapping and spraying penetrant on them.

You got to understand this tractor sat for nearly 30 years in my father-in-law’s shed before I got it, and it’s been sitting at my place for another 7. It has not had any coolant/water in it over this entire time. Here in Arkansas we get wild temperture and humidity swings. Rocks often sweat from these warm/cool cycles and the oil would have sealed any such water off from evaporation. I am pretty confident the water is accumulated over time. I am going to give everything anserious going over before I try to make it run again.

About 6 months before my father-in-law brought the tractor to me we managed to get the B started and ran it for about 10 minutes with no coolant. When I first started cranking it I noticed it was very stiff at one point, but became easier after a few tries. I bet the valve was stuck then and I bent the push rod.

I watched carefully today as I cranked it over through several revolutions, and all the valves were opening and closing well. I will check each valve manually later to make sure they are all working right. I bet that valve was in the half open position for the 30 years the tractor sat in the shed.

I haven’t panicked yet, but I sure am sick with myself for not getting that crankcase drained and fresh oil in it before doing anything else.

Thanks. That does make me feel better! At no point did the engine seize or really get any harder to crank. I have talked to my pop-in-law since my last post and he told me he had to pull start the tractor after the rebuild back in the 60’s and it did skip and pop a while before smoothing out. He also said he never had the valve cover off after he rebuilt it, and set the clearance. That tells me he set that on a cold engine! So it may be that intake valve was stuck a long time ago and since freed up. I am still going to double check all the valves by hand some time tomorrow. The stems all look smooth and rust free, but we will see.

   David from jax

I got out this morning and straightened that push rod, which was far easier than I imagined. I wrapped it in some old denim and clamped it in my vise. I rolled it on a sheet of glass and it has a tiny warp (<1/16”) I think will be acceptable. I pulled and checked all the other push rods, and they are fine. I then made sure they were all riding on the lifters as they are supposed to. I also manually pushed each valve down and none of them have any binding I can feel. I turned the engine over and rechecked each one as a couple contacted piston tops. No, I didn’t use much force at all.

With the spark plugs out and the rocker off I cranked and cranked on the little beast as fast as I could several times. The push rods all rose and fell as they are supposed to. The diesel was pumped up through the slotted rocker stud at the rear of the engine, and when I stopped I could hear the diesel running back down out of the oil pump and passages into the sump. This tells me that the oil pump is working and the pickup screen is clear. Most importantly the friction became less and less and the cranking got so very easy. I also squirted oil into the cylinders with a 10cc syringe and made sure there were no “sticky” points by slowly turning the engine.

Now for the rockers contacting the vlave spring caps. Will solid washers with a center opening matching the studs/bolts work, or do I need something different? When I do get the rocker assembly raised up what rough cold clearance should I use to get the engine warmed up for a final setting? Will 20% over be enough, or should I allow more?

I am going to warm the block up with my little BBQ and give the beast a couple more cranking sessions. I may drain that diesel and repeat the process. When I am satisfied that all the water and gunk is cleared fresh oil, sea foam and new filter is going in. WHEN I do get it warmed up from running, and the valve clearance set, another oil change will follow. Would 2 or 3 hours of running be enough, or too much?

I want to thank all of you for holding my hand, and the generous reassurance. I was pretty upset with myself yesterday. Let my foolishness be a lesson. If your engine has been sitting for years without running get that dead oil out before beginning any other efforts. Had my carb worked, and I got the engine hot, I could have done major damage. Thankfully that old carb did freeze and crack! I am on my way now boyz!

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone. Mine is looking top notch. When I was about to come back in the house a bald eagle was doing lazy circles over our house, and I take that as a great sign.

No, but my in-laws live near Mena. We live in eastern Stone county on 60 acres of ledge rocks on the side of a steep hill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what was done, and my father-in-law is now 75 and cannot remember all the details. The springs sure seem stiff to me, but I have no idea if they are up to spec. I don’t see any spring shims. The tractor is never going to see serious work again, so I am not worried about burning a valve too much. The most I plan on doing with the B is maybe dragging a road roller, or maybe a trailer for firewood. I just want to save the old machine from rusting down into sheer junk. I think if I hadn’t started working on it this fall it might have not been possible.

Yeah, I tend to do that. Part of that profession in a previous lifetime. There aren’t many second chances with 66 million year old fossils. If you don’t get it right the first time there are no second chances.

I do want to get the block heated up though to at least dry out any water hidden in nooks and crannies. I may forego the second flush with diesel if I can do that.

We need to get together then! PM me and I will shoot you directions to come visit, or vise versa. You might be interested in my plastic drum electrolysis tank that is working like a dream. You could also check out the pile of rust I am trying to convert into a running B. We are off highway 5 near the Lighthouse church and Hilltop apartments on Bob Davis Mountain Road. Most of the lumber in my house came from F.L. Davis in Heber. Howdy neighbor.

Thanks! Yep I thought about the consistent thickness thing. I have a micrometer I use for measuring rifle cartridges in reloading, and should tell me how close they are to each other, but your glass/straight edge would work just as well. I may be crazy about details but the washers don’t need to match the rocker stand profile. I have a pile of both sizes and can pick 4 of those within a few thousandths of each other. I just need to make sure they are flat so the rocker arm doesn’t lose oil sealing and no bending happens to he rocker shaft. Thanks again for the advice!!

Yes, that would do it, but I don’t even have a shop. I am doing all this out in the yard. If the engine has to come apart it will have to go to a shop with the right tools. I am hoping I can get the old beast to just start and run without making it detonate.

I pulled the oil filter and cranked the devil out of the engine again after warming it up with my little kettle BBQ. A little water squirted out of the up pipe. I am sure that old filter is full of water and useless. A new one awaits! I took off the little supply lines and blew those out. Yes, water came out of those too. I think I have 99% of that evil junk out of the engine now.

After that I managed to pull the steering wheel and pitman arm in preparation for getting the tool box in the electrolysis. Of all the sheet metal it is the least effected by rust so that should go pretty quick. That pitman arm was seriously stuck as I am sure it has not been moved since it was installed.

Done already with SEA washers. Everything is good now.

Ha ha ha, no I doubt it was. Us Arkie have been resourceful though and we call those thorns on black locust trees “Arkansas toothpicks”. To prove I come from humble folks I distinctly remember having a sassafras twig toothbrush as a kid. Maybe that’s part of the reason my choppers are all plastic now.

  David from jax

My bad for not proofing my post more carefully. Yes, I did mean REMOVING the pitman arm. I cannot believe how much pressure I had to apply with the puller to finally get it to pop loose. I am not sure the puller would have taken much more.

The steering gearbox is surprisingly tight (lacking play/slop). The toolbox/steering column shroud is now in my electrolysis tank, and has the least rust of any of the sheetmetal parts. Now that all the sheet metal is off I can get the running gear cleaned up and painted. All the other sheetmetal is either primed or painted, and my 55 gallon plastic drum electrolysis tank is a winner! It has made short work of all the dead and peeling paint, not to mention the rust.

Sorry for not being more precise in my prose.

got to!  you never know when Bill Long might drop by... don't I wish!!!

My father-in-law bought another B just for the PTO/belt drive that has a freeze busted block. He paid something like $25 for it. I thought this tractor had a starter hole, but it is another ‘38. This parts tractor is now here at my place. While the gas tank is a rusted out hunk of junk it has many good parts. From the torque tube back is in pretty good shape, and the steering sector is tight too. The cam and crank look to be in pretty good shape, and the cam has been in the electrolysis tank and came out clean. I am going to salvage as many parts as possible off this second B and use what I need and sell the rest. That junk tractor has the front hubs with automotive style wheel lugs, and will probably go on the B I am trying to save.

I fully agree with your opinion about Dick L. His picture of the magneto drive dog/slot position alone was an eye opener. It took most of the mystery out of the issue for me. His advice to shim up the rocker assembly was top shelf!

Just yesterday the last piece of sheet metal came out of my electrolysis tank, the toolbox/steering column shroud, and is now primed. Now I am anxious for the magneto to arrive and get the old machine to make noise again. Those Autolite 295’s are gapped and installed! The engine needs to run, and get warmed up. I can then set the valve clearance, and steam off any water I know is still hiding down deep in the block.

This project means a great deal to me. Being a family heirloom is first on that list. Saving a antique is important to me as well. Then there is the aspect of keeping me busy, which this sure has done! I am not particularly a tractor geek, but I love old machines of all kinds. I can’t afford to restore an old car or truck so the B is my outlet.

So much remains ahead of me. I have to clean up the entire drive train, and then get it repainted. I am still leaning toward flat black for that. Then the rear rims and tires need to be bought. I need a new manifold, and muffler, too as rust has eaten a couple holes almost an inch wide into the exhaust side, and I don’t want any warped valves! I looked long and hard at my old rims and they are just too far gone to be safe or reliable. The front rims can be saved, but my father-in-law’s spare tractor has 5 stud hubs and I am going to use those for sheer simplicity, and get 3 rib tires mounted on new rims. I am going to box in under the seat bracket and carry all my onboard tools in that, and I am going to try to build my own seat. The gearbox and final drives need drained and lubes refilled. After all that, and the other things I haven’t found that need fixed, is done I will then have to reassemble everything with a ton of new fasteners. Yeah, this is almost overwhelming, but I am mule stubborn when I set my mind on something, and the old B is going to be saved from being turned into Chinese junk.

Don’t worry about keeping y’all updated. I am not shy by any means! I take pride in doing something like this, and am documenting nearly every step with photos. My science training forces me to document trivial things, and I have a small notebook just for the B. My restoration isn’t for show, or to impress folks. I am doing this to save the B! I despise rust with a passion!

Anyone that wants to come visit and look over the B is more than welcome. Just give me a heads up so I can let you in past the gate we keep locked 24/7. Meth monkeys worry the hell out of us, and I take my home defense very seriously. Just leave me a private message and we’ll work out the time. Some of y’all might be interested in checking out our off grid electrical system too.

I will get a picture or two of the tank today, and post them. The seat bracket needs dunking so I will post a picture of that going in, and then after it gets cleaned up. It doesn’t have a speck of paint left on it so the process should go faster than the sheet metal parts I have treated so far that had dead paint insulating the steel from the electrolyte. That dead paint gets as soft as if paint stripper had been applied, but with no toxic mess left over.

I wish I had discovered this process years ago. There’s no telling how much time I have spent sanding and grinding on old parts from other projects. I am still amazed at how well it just kills rust. I have seen where other folks used kiddie swimming pools for even larger parts, but the plastic drum is plenty big enough for the parts from the B.

I have a set of barrels from a seriously old shotgun I found while doing survey work looking for dinosaur bones in South Dakota. They were out on the badlands miles and miles from anything. Turst me when I say I looked hard for the reciever! When I get time it is getting the treatment. If those barrels could talk there’s no telling what story they could tell.

Rooting for your success from north of the 49th.

I too see bubbles coming off the part being cleaned, which is the CATHODE, or negative post. In my picture above my ANODE, or positive, rods have just been given an angle grinder wire brushing down to bright steel, and always seem to go nuts bubbling after that. The part being cleaned spreads the bubbles out more, and the bubbles rise straight up around the rods.

No, the cooling system is not functional yet. I don’t plan on running it long enough for the engine to get seriously hot. Maybe 5-10 minutes depending. When the block gets warm to the touch I will shut it down. When I am satisfied with the function of the running, and set the valve clearance, I will mount the radiator. I want to flush out the block and radiator before mounting them. Mice may have crammed junk in the block as the water pump was off for a long time. My plan is to jam a hose into the bottom/intake of the block and make sure there is not a wad of nesting material that would get sucked/pushed into the radiator. I think the new water pump will push anything like that out. I have removed the thermostat and will put a long hose on the housing so I don’t soak the mag or carb. I was thinking about putting a screen in line with the thermostat housing to catch any junk that might be in there. I will face that problem when I get to it. I don’t think running the engine for a few minutes under close observation is much of a risk. Every car engine I have rebuilt has followed this pattern, and I haven’t cooked one yet.

OK, I will get that cooling system flushed and sorted.

Perhaps that screen between the thermostat and radiator can cover my backside in case mice made a nest in the block. Again, I might be over thinking the issue, but a plugged up radiator is something I cannot deal with right now. Could I run it without the pump belt and just have coolant in there?

I have never delt with a sleeved engine before, again my assumption was wrong and learned something.

Edit: OK, I am going to flush the block and make a metal screen wire “cone” to fit inside the upper radiator inlet with enough extra to overlap the outside and clamp down with the hose. I may have to change it several times, but I cannot allow that radiator to get plugged with trash.

 

old steel fence post cut to 30 inch lengths would also work !

Makes sense. I will dig around my scraps and see what I can come up with.

They are 5 lug type, and I am not sure of the pattern. They “look” like Ford spacing, but I haven’t given them a good looking at yet. In the unloading picture one can see that there is a brake drum on one side and a bare steel wheel on the other. I do know these were not standard equipment for a 38, and were added who knows when. The donor had a freeze cracked block when my pop-in-law bought it for parts. I am going to get the donor jacked up and pull them off late next week as I begin to split the old machine. I am going to pull the entire steering system off, so they need to go anyway. The transmission and differential seem to be in good shape, but no PTO. I will probably have to replace the bearings and get new seals, and I am not sure about the spindles if they are the same as the ones on my 38.

I will get a picture of the hubs and post it later today. I have to make a run into town early today and pick up a goodie for the wife’s Christmas present. My problem there is she was born on Christmas day, so it’s a double tap for me.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-2-6a-manual-battery-charger" rel="nofollow - https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-2-6a-manual-battery-charger

Yeah, that’s what I thought too. Right after Christmas I find out what’s what.

I need to figure out the stud pattern and start shopping for rims, bearings and seals. I need to look for the upright bushings too. I’ll learn how my B goes together by taking the donor apart.

Thanks!