Construction and other equipment - An Auction for the Rest of Us.

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An Auction for the Rest of Us.

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144296
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 2:56am
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Topic: An Auction for the Rest of Us.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Subject: An Auction for the Rest of Us.
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:20am

Garlic Mom, Ray, Billy and I went to an auction near Merced on Saturday.

Garlic Mom and I went to Billy's Friday afternoon. We brought him a present of a Fifteen parts tractor that WyoCat was nice enough to arrange for us. Billy had a Fifteen parts tractor which used to sit in front of his house connected to a tumblebug. A guy stopped by regularly and asked him to sell it. One day he had a weak moment and had been regretting it ever since. Now he has a Fifteen to complement his tumblebug again.

Billy and Annette were kind enough to host us for dinner and let us stay in their guest house. Billy's house is about two hours north of us, and the auction was about an hour from his house. Here's Billy's truck in its house.

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Saturday morning we woke up early and unloaded the Fifteen and put it where it belonged. We went to Firebaugh for breakfast at the Giant Burger, which is the local duck bill club. There we met several of Billy's friends, including one who has mules and showed us lots of neat pictures and videos of the mules, interesting tractors and other stuff.

After a good breakfast, we headed north to find the auction. Our original plan was to bring three trucks, ours, Billy's and Joe's, along with our 966. It turned out Joe had other commitments and Billy's truck turned up with the shifter air lines eaten by mice, so we were down to one truck and the 966. That was O. K. though.

When we got to the auction, there was even more, better stuff than the flyer had advertised. In addition to the Allis Chalmers Wheel Dozer and neat Allis Chalmers HD-16A we were interested in, there was another bareback Allis HD-16A, about the most pristine Adams pull grader I've seen. The big one with ten foot wide axles, two neat military Jeeps and quite a few Cats.

Many of our Cat friends were there, so we didn't figure to get any of the Cats, but we did strike on a few good things.

Here's a really neat 100 year old flat belt pump with pipe which we got for a couple hundred. This'll go in Daron's front yard.

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Here's the Allis Chalmers HD-16A we got for $850.00. It hadn't run in over ten years. It has a Detroit 6-71 for power. It also has a really neat Garwood blade with Garwood front cable control and Garwood double drum rear cable control. We added water and removed the valve cover to check for stuck injector. Pulling the engine through a revolution revealed three stuck injectors. I was able to pry them up and down a few times and get them loosened up. I pulled it through a couple more revolutions and they were still a little stiff, but the rack stayed free. Ray pushed me with the 966 and in about a revolution or so it was running just fine.

Everything works, including the front cable control drum and both rear drums, all steering clutches and brakes and the master clutch. We tried the starter with two good batteries, but it didn't want to spin the engine over. We were just using jumper cables though and the old batteries were still connected, so sucking current too. I think if we got two good batteries and wired them up correctly, it'll start as it should.

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Here's an absolutely spectacular big Twenty which Skinner bought. I think he got a steal.

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Here's a really nice, straight Wooldridge which we got for $450.00. The tires all hold air and it looks really good.

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Here's a really nice ripper which we let go to a friend, who kindly backed off on bidding on some of the stuff we wanted. I think he gave $500.00 for it.

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And here's a nifty little Allis Chalmers wheel dozer. I believe it is a D-30 model. It has the Allis Chalmers six cylinder turbo diesel which was originally a Buda design, before they were purchased by Allis. We got this for $550.00.

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We were a little worried about the right front tire. The lock ring was pushed back about six inches off the o-ring and the tire was pretty cracked. The other three tires took air and appeared to hold well. We lifted the trunnion and set it on a big block, then ran a chain around the right front tire. We jerked on the chain with the 966 to try to pull the lock ring back out. At first, no dice. We tried pushing the ring in a bit with a fork tip and got the ring to move. Some nice people gave us a can of P. B. Blaster which we used liberally. With it all lubed up, we started jerking the chain again.

It took lots of jerks and creative repositioning of the chain, but eventually we got the ring back up to the o-ring and started pumping in air. It took a bunch more jerks and repositioning of the chain, but we finally got the air inflow to overcome the leaks and the ring seated, o-ring sealed and the tire held fifty pounds of air.

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Saturday after the auction, Skinner needed some help hauling a nice Twenty Eight parts tractor to his place, so Garlic Mom and Billy followed him with our pickup and car trailer while Ray and I worked on the HD-16A. When they got back, we had it loaded up and were ready to take it to Billy's house. That was all we could get done that day, so we spent Saturday night at Billy's and returned Sunday morning, after another nice Giant Burger breakfast.

Sunday morning, after fixing the wheel dozer tires, we were going to try to start it, but we discovered the fuel filters and canisters had disappeared. This engine has a Roosamaster pump and the filter base is a remote affair bolted to the block. It has provision for two canisters with what looked like six lines coming from it. My theory is that, even though it is mounted canister down, it is similar to the International scheme, where one canister is a prefilter from the fuel tank, then the lines go to the lift pump, then back to the second filter for a fine filtration, then back to the pump for injection.

If I'm right, Billy has a spare set of those from his International MD, so I may be able to adapt something to work.

Since we couldn't start it, we towed it around and got it lined up with the trailer. This has that fully hydraulic steering, where the steering wheel is connected to a rotor and lines go to the steering cylinders, no mechanical connection. That worked out good because we could just bump the wheels to steer where we needed.

We got it all loaded up, chained down and hauled over to Billy's. We fired up the HD-16A to unload. Here's s short video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnkwNAXlDV4&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnkwNAXlDV4&feature=youtu.be

and some photos.

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Here's Billy and granddaughter McKenna, who were supervising.

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While at the auction, we helped several people load stuff, including the buddy who bought the ripper and he also bought a really neat Galion grader with a UD-18 engine. Neat to have a full hydraulic grader with twin stacks from that era. This looks like something King of Obsolete needs.

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It was a fun day, lots of good friends and made some new ones and got some neat equipment pretty easy on the wallet.

It'll be fun to get it home, adjusted, greased up and repaired, ready to play.

Pete.

Garlic Mom and I returned and loaded the Wooldridge, dumping the truck with it still on at Billy's and beat it for home. We were home by about 9:30 pm.

Replies:

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:21am

New Here.

I'm new here, but I have posted over on the Caterpillar bulletin board for a while. Someone over there told me about this forum and I thought you all might be interested in our latest acquisitions, and maybe could help us as we learn about them.

Pete.

Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:35am

Welcome and thanks for posting! Awesome buys.

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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

Posted By: Ferdinand
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:38am

Here's the Allis Chalmers HD-16A we got for $850.00. Shocked

............................Ray pushed me with the 966 and in about a revolution or so it was running just fine. Thumbs Up

Maybe one day, i"ll find something like that.

Really like the Peterbilt. Is it a 351?

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Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mathew 7:14

Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 11:25am

Welcome to the group. Great acquisitions. Good job.

Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 4:06pm

Garlic Pete: I hope the ACMOC boys don't rib you too bad for collecting the AC's.

All the best - nice job on saving these machines.

Orangeman

Posted By: dustydoo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 6:36pm

Welcome to the boards ! Great purchases , wish you best of luck with them all !

Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:37pm

That is my kind of day!

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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!

Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 11:06pm

Garlic Pete, as far as I know, the HD16 crawlers all had AC engines in them... unless somegody transplanted one from an HD15... and I wish it had been in my neck of the woods... 850 bucks PFFFFTT!!! no body sells them hunks of irons that cheap here nor in that good of condition. wouldn't have minded the LeTournue scrapper either.

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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 11:59pm

Hey Garlic Pete

I like the D30 wheel dozer , it will have the allis 11000 series engine and the fuel pump is an American Bosch (AMBAC) you are correct with the fuel filters and the way they are set up there is a large one and smaller one , they have a steel outer housing that is held in with a centre bolt I would be surprised if they weren't laying around near the machine or in the shed i f you could find them all you would need is the paper cartridge inner element .Regards steve

Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 2:31am

welcome to the forum, and thank you for posting the story and pics! you will find a lot of good info in here from a lot of great people!

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 1:58pm

Thank you all.

Ferdinand - I'm not sure of the model, but the Peterbilt is a 1963. I believe it might be a 351. It has been converted to single axle, but was originally tandem drive.

JC(WI) - As you'll see below, you are correct on the tractor model.

Steve allis dozer - Thank you for the information on the engine model number and filter arrangement. I think I have a lead on the person who bought a pallet of parts, which probably had these canisters and bolts on it. If not, I'd appreciate any guidance anyone might be able to provide about getting canisters and bolts for an 110000 filter housing.

I wasn't able to make the trip to another Member's this weekend because of some family health issues with Garlic Sweetie's Dad. Those are under control now, so Garlic Mom and I, joined by Daniel, Colby and the two dogs, piled into the pickup and headed up to Billy's Sunday afternoon to retrieve one of our treasures.

Billy had pizza, hot links and potato and macaroni salad ready for us when we got there. After a nice lunch, we got down to business.

We drained some of the water and added antifreeze to the HD-15, started it up and ran it to circulate stuff.

Ray from Madera came over to pick up Garlic Mom's John Deere crank inventory. We transferred the cranks out of the back of the pickup and into Ray's trailer. Ray stayed around to help us out loading. He even donated some of his WD-40 to lubricate my binders. He said something about being smart enough not to fight with a piece of steel which was probably smarter than me.

I was able to check the serial number. It is, in fact, an HD-15AC, as pictured:

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http://postimg.org/image/k2b2nrij9/" rel="nofollow">

Daniel and Colby had a good time running the HD-15 and the 966. We pushed the wheel dozer up onto the Cozad with a minimum of drama and got it tied down.

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I thought the wheel dozer looked pretty frog like sitting there on the truck.

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In the first picture, you can see Garlic Mom at the edge on the left, then Ray, Colby, Daniel and Billy. I can't remember the big dog's name, but the little dog is called "Little Dog". She likes to ride, so any chance she sees an open door, she zips into the car and hides her face in the corner of the passenger seat floorboard, thinking she's invisible.

I'll need some parts for the engine of the wheel dozer. The fuel filter elements and canisters are missing. It is an Allis Chalmers 11000 engine, originally a Buda design. I believe one canister is larger than the other. The filter base is a remote affair so I could adapt different bases and filters to do the job, if necessary. I'll get more detailed pictures and post them in the next couple of days.

Pete.

Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 5:36pm

Ida thought the dog's name shoulda been garlic dog, er maybe clovus, hee hee hee!! Wink

Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 2:02am

Maybe Big Dog?

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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 9:06am

We had a little play day over the weekend. There is a bit of off topic in here. Didn't really do any digging, but did repair a few things, start and run several things and had a really good time.

Daron and Marianne came over from California City and Joe came from Buttonwillow.

Daron helped me figure out I had the Allis Chalmers batteries hooked up backwards, should be positive ground. After fixing that, and a bit of manual adjustment (bending a voltage regulator points spring attach point) he had the generator generating. The last piece I need to fix on it is the Hobbs mechanical hour meter. I got it apart last night and need to figure out if it has an electrical problem or a mechanical clock movement problem.

Tom and his Brother Doug came down from Tehachapi in his immaculate 1959 GMC Cannonball.

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https://postimg.org/image/l4phbqys5/" rel="nofollow">

He has put the axles from a 2001 Peterbilt under it, so it rides nice with the Peterbilt air leaf suspension. He also just finished overhauling the 6-71 to solve a heating problem. The Detroit injectors fit into a copper sleeve which can develop pinholes and let combustion gasses into the cooling system. It is an absolutely spectacular truck. Tom was kind enough to take me for a ride and let me drive it a bit. It is better than new! Steering is tight, everything works, it is just beautiful.

Garlic Mom wanted to get her Allis Chalmers UC going, so we aired up the tires, added some gas and got it running. Joe took it for a spin, then Garlic Mom took her turn.

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Here's some video of Joe riding around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2v5oc0WU8I" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2v5oc0WU8I

https://postimg.org/image/hxqcedoyd/" rel="nofollow">

Joe spent some time on the RD-7.

https://postimg.org/image/6dq4035at/" rel="nofollow">

https://youtu.be/_yWE2rbvl8U" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/_yWE2rbvl8U

Tom also got some seat time on the RD-7, but we were too busy having fun to shoot the video!

We started the sawmill turbo D7 17A. I hadn't been able to test the steering brake repair I did, but it seems to work, steers in both directions now! I still need to swap out the rusted through transmission filter tower and get some new cable so that the blade will work. No pictures or video of that, though. Too busy trying to start, operate and evaluate.

After lunch, Tom and Doug took the Allis Chalmers HD-15AC and Wooldridge for a spin. Video courtesy of Tom's (Rileydog362) YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBH6XLapxRg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBH6XLapxRg

We had a really nice time.

Pete.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 9:08am

Old School Contracting.

Garlic Mom had such a good time at the play day Saturday, she didn't want the fun to end. Sunday, she said we needed to do some Old School Contracting, so we got out the 1963 Peterbilt, hooked it to the Cozad and loaded up the HD-15AC and Wooldridge for some fun.

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Here's a video with some taking off, some driving by, a few sessions of poorly executed twin stick shifting and the unload at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjNlK2qle4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjNlK2qle4

Anybody need a hole dug?

Pete.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 9:12am

Help With 11000 Fuel Filter Canisters and Filters.

I got a few pictures of the fuel filter base and engine details of the 11000 engine in the wheel dozer.

Can anyone suggest where I could get the missing canisters, bolts and other internal parts. Also could use help with filter element part numbers.

I didn't get a readable picture of the engine serial number. I'll try to get that next time I'm out there and post here.

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Thanks for any help you can give.

Pete.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 3:27pm

I think you'll find that filter assembly on anything using Allis 10000 up engines going on our AC 45 grader parts books. There is one on the HD 11 516 Buda/Lanova parts engine I got too so might be even earlier in them.

Might be on other Allis models as well.

Probably easier to get the whole assembly than just the parts you're missing

The elements are the same for that type filter and the earlier separate filter assemblies (from the parts books - the canisters etc from those are the same)

Primary 4347787 (Fleetguard FF106)

Secondary 065583 (Fleetguard FF109)

(From AC Forty Five / 45 parts books and experience)

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 4:03pm

I have the filter head and canisters off my donor, I believe. Will have to go look and let you know.

Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 5:11pm

I shold have the complet filter housing ass.

Posted By: James Coons
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 10:52pm

Looks like your having tons of fun!! Clap

Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 11:07pm

I really like the video of the ole Pete. Thanks for sharing.

Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 7:22am

looks like your play pen is a fun place to be!

Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 9:14am

I check this morning and have the fuel filter housing complet 4389051

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 11:07am

Thanks everyone. I'm glad you enjoyed. We had a lot of fun.

gemdozer - Let me know here or over on ACMOC how much for the filter assembly. I think I still have your address, but I'll check.

As far as I can tell, if I can get that filter back in service, I can at least try starting the engine and diagnosing from there.

The only other obvious sign of trouble with that unit is the hydraulic pump, which is hung below the crank pulley and driven by two V-belts, has been removed.

I still have it and can see where there was damage to the supply line to it from the tank. I just can't tell if that damage is the cause for the partial removal or if it happened after another failure, which is the cause for the partial removal.

Anyway, with the fuel filter housing attached, I can at least start the engine, diagnose it and see how it sounds and begin working on other issues.

Thanks for the interest and replies.

Pete.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 11:08am

Dmiller - Thanks for mentioning that you have them, too. If something happens with gemdozer's, I may come back and see if you're interested in selling yours.

Pete.

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 12:06pm

Still have not looked but will get what I have available IF needed!!

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 8:05am

Can anyone tell me where, on the filter base assembly, to look for a part number?

I don't see anything visible in my photos. I need to go back out to the machine and look again. Maybe it is on the top somewhere under that diesel soaked dirt, or on the inside of the raised part of the casting on the top?

gemdozer has two different housings and I need to find out which I have to make sure he sends the right one. The part numbers he has are 4377258 and 4389051. He thinks mine should be 4377258, but would like to know for sure.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Pete.

Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 12:41pm

The 4389051 is aluminum housing and the 4377258 is in stell housing

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 12:47pm

So long as get cans and all can exchange the housings, just swap the entire assembly.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:18pm

The Ac 45 parts book for 10000 engine doesn't give a part number for a complete filter assembly, only numbers for the component parts.

In that the head assembly is 4377259

Later (Head assembly is the filter base)

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 5:39pm

Thanks guys.

Garlic Mom checked and our filter base appears to have part number 4377258. Could maybe be a nine at the end, but I think gemdozer said the unit he has with the steel base has a part number of 4377258 on it, so it looks like we've got a match.

We might have smoke and noise from that wheel dozer yet!

Pete.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 10:47am

gemdozer was kind enough to sell me the exact right fuel filter housings and base for the Allis Chalmers 11000 engine in the wheel dozer. He even included one brand new filter with the package!

Last weekend I decided to see if I could get it to run. There are seven connections to that filter housing, if I counted correctly. Every single one of them had about an inch or two of almost concrete like stuff plugging them up. I think they must have been mud dauber wasp work, mixed with diesel. I spent most of a day tracing connections, getting loose rusted, grown together fittings on hard hoses and unpacking all that stuff. I now have good clear flow from the tank, through the primary filter, to the lift pump, back to the secondary filter and out to the main injection pump.

The injection pump is an American Bosch, I believe it is a PSB model. I have good flow through the hydraulic head and out of it to the pressure relief and air vent port, back to the filter housing return to the tank.

I removed the shutoff rod and the cover over the shutoff. The governor regulator rod is free and appears to move normally through the proper range of motion. Everything I can see in there is clean, with a good coating of oil and no rust, not even a speck. When I crank the engine, I can see the injector pump gear rotating behind the governor regulator rod arm.

I also removed the top cover from the governor and flyweight section. Everything in there is clean, no rust, moves properly and has a nice coating of oil.

I can't get any fuel to pump out of the hydraulic head into the injector lines. I removed the injector lines from the hydraulic head and even though I have flow through the head and out the pressure relief port, nothing pumps out the injector line ports.

I removed the center plug bolt from the hydraulic head, which I believe covers the actual injector piston. When I crank the engine with that bolt removed, I get flow out of the center port, but not pulsed flow like the pump is working, just low pressure flow like it is bypassing the pump piston through the metering scroll being pushed by the lift pump.

My feeling is that the center injector piston is probably stuck, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to access it. I have no manuals, but have looked at some drawings on the internet. I haven't removed the pump from the engine. I thought perhaps I might be able to access the bottom of the injector pump from the side if I remove the lift pump, but I can't tell for sure. Perhaps there is a cover on the other side of the pump which is against the block?

I feel if I could just access that injector pump at the lifter end and gently get it moving, like on a Cat, I'd have this thing running, but I sure can't figure out how to do that.

Appreciate any help you all can give.

Pete.

Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:13pm

GP, does the governor arm /fuel arm going into the injector head, is that stuck or moves freely? the arm that is behind the bracket that is held in by two screws... maybe the metering pin is wore, broke or missing to lift the fuel metering ring on back side... or a stuck center plunger like you said. Got some material on a PBS pump that would be similar, will post below.

-------------
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:25pm

I will post the PBS lit here, it is for a WD45 diesel but will be similar.

-------------
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:59pm

Thanks, JC(WI). That will be really helpful.

The governor arm is free. I believe when I first attempted to move it, there was a slight resistance, I'll bet it and the sleeve were just lightly stuck. It didn't take any force at all to get it to move, but it was just a bit sticky for a while.

It is moving completely freely now though. I'm sure that the pump plunger probably has the same tiny bit of gum holding it up, so it can't do its job.

With the information you've posted, I should pretty easily be able to pull the hydraulic head and get to the pump plunger. With access, I can gently apply a bit of persuasion and work it back and forth until it is free.

Thanks for the outstanding information. Next weekend is filled with a hauling trip, so it'll probably be a week and a half before I can put it to use. Hopefully once I'm back with, I'll be able to post some videos of smoke and noise.

Pete.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 3:22pm

IIRC if you take out that stud in the centre of the hydraulic head and the valvery you should be able to get a rod on the top of the plunger and feel if it is moving. If stuck you might be able to bump it down gently.

If you have to remove the head you have to remove a stud that goes in the side of the head (faces the back of the pump iirc). That has a square o-ring on it. Check that it comes out with the stud as it may not and will interfere with getting the head off. And treat it gently as it seems like much to do with PSB pumps it is unobtanium.

And watch that little retaining clip on the bottom of the plunger.

Removing the head is easier if you make yourself the special spanner to undo the pipe nuts. Get yourself a picture, a long socket of the right size, your angle grinder with a thin cut-off wheel and have at it.

I posted on this back when we were getting our Forty Five going.

More on PSB pumps in here

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/AmbacMenu1.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/AmbacMenu1.htm

There was a comment from an injection repairer recently (might have been over at YT) to the effect that with modern diesel you should check that PSB type pumps are actually free if sitting for longer that about 6 months to avoid internal damage to unobtainable parts.

I'd worry that if your plunger is stuck up its cylinder that the spill port ought to be closed and that diesel should not be coming out the top of the head. But I haven't checked a diagram and I hope I'm wrong! The feel test ought to decide that.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 3:50pm

Also not sure of the manuals you might need but for engine details you might need access to a HD 11 manual .

The Jensales repro for the Forty Five grader is pretty sketchy on the engine section. You need access to a HD 11 one for full cover of the engine (Lanova, 10000, 11000). Though for dozers it covers replacing the cam bearings for the grader engine, which is longer on the front one because of the blower drive.

Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:29pm

Just one minor point worth noting.

The plug on the side of the heads on psb pumps is often mistaken as a bleed plug.

Its not; it covers the delivery, or check valve for the fuel pump.

Be very careful if you had that out. That its put back in correctly and the valve and its spring are seating correctly. If spring was incorrectly installed; and bent. It will give you all the syptoms your having.

I discovered all this the hard way. . . .

As others have said, centre plug is the correct bleed port on a psb pump

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tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 2:54pm

Here are a couple of pages on timing a PSB 6 from the AC Forty Five manual. Apologies for the one upside down

Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 5:51pm

first page hadda come from a aussie manual... Wink

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 5:54pm

Dave

All positions from Jensales.

Plus I was navigating upload at the time

Posted By: ac_sd
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 6:43pm

Looks like an HD-15A and great Buy !!

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 7:25pm

I think I've found my problem. It looks like my injector pump plunger is stuck up. The pivot tang on the sleeve control shaft has also sheared off.

Here's a picture before disassembly:

https://postimg.org/image/m7c4gs3jp/" rel="nofollow">

Here's a picture of the model and serial number tag:

https://postimg.org/image/vrvr3mil1/" rel="nofollow">

After removing the lines and connectors and the center plug, here is the flow I get when cranking the engine. This flow is doesn't really pulse, it is more of a steady fountain.

https://postimg.org/image/l51xybd1h/" rel="nofollow">

Here is the sleeve control rod after removal.

https://postimg.org/image/czjw016r9/" rel="nofollow">

This is the other end, which should have the little pivot tang attached which fits into a slot in the sleeve.

https://postimg.org/image/6ym731cg5/" rel="nofollow">

Here you can see the sleeve through the hole that the sleeve control shaft passes through.

https://postimg.org/image/4u1u1zstx/" rel="nofollow">

Here is the hydraulic head after removal. You can see the metering sleeve and slot in the window.

https://postimg.org/image/56t883b2t/" rel="nofollow">

Here is the broken tang, which I found lying just under the sleeve.

https://postimg.org/image/pe6o0eg9x/" rel="nofollow">

Here's a close up of the hydraulic head tag.

https://postimg.org/image/k2rrfqrn9/" rel="nofollow">

In this picture of the hydraulic head, you can see that the injector plunger spring is all the way compressed.

https://postimg.org/image/9fxyabyxh/" rel="nofollow">

When I first removed it, it was not completely compressed, but almost. I tapped it with a hammer it moved slightly inward, but is now jammed with the spring completely compressed. I can move the sleeve on the plunger shaft, but only by prying it with a chisel and tapping the chisel with a hammer.

The rotator gear does rotate, but very stiffly. With the smooth, machined surfaces of the plunger, it is difficult to tell for sure, but I believe it is not rotating with the gear, leading me to believe it has probably sheared whatever drive interface it has with the gear.

I suspect my hydraulic head is not field repairable as it is. I'll probably either have to find a good replacement or have this one rebuilt.

Any advice?

Pete.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 8:04pm

Pete

PSB6A - 100EH says it has a 10 mm plunger. Allis played tunes on HD 11 pumps in that some had 9 mm plungers and some 10 - I don't know the inside story there.

Have a look at

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/AmbacMenu1.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/AmbacMenu1.htm

from page 19 on to see how the internals of a PSB work

As far as I know you are in unobtanium territory now with that head as far as rebuilt.

A while back there was an outfit advertising remade or rebuilt ones for PSBs and M100s for pulling but then the PSB ones disappeared. IIRC there is an earlier post of mine on that here somewhere and some replies. Plus some on the injection pump saga we had getting our AC Forty Five going.

Back then I found an Ambac list of replacement heads (pdf so I don't think I can hook it on here) which lists HD5901 as a replacement for your number (HD5155A as I read it). The one on our original pump was HD4607AR (R = rebuilt) for comparison.

Anyway unless you're lucky you're probably looking at finding a used pump that works or a diesel shop that has a hidden replacement head or at least one that is useable.

Maybe try Hector Gemme up in Canada who watches here and see what he has

Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 9:59pm

Something has sure gone thru. that pump that's created a nightmare. You might call Rick at Cell 314-479-7757 He's fooled around with AC parts for a long time and knows a lot of people.

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 7:28am

Local Fuel Inj shop shudders every time one is brought in, parts are scarce, the new turn is to try to find a inline Bosch to replace the Ambac or swap to a Roosa Master style.

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 3:00pm

DMiller wrote:

Local Fuel Inj shop shudders every time one is brought in, parts are scarce, the new turn is to try to find a inline Bosch to replace the Ambac or swap to a Roosa Master style.

DM

Any chance of more detail on these swaps? Which pumps etc. Seems to me that the Allis setup must run the pump at crank speed so the pump must have reduction gears??

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 3:12pm

It is good to have lots of good support and people who have been there before.

One of the guys on the ACMOC board suggested heating it in the oven and cooling the plunger. I put it in Garlic Mom's oven at 350 degrees for fifteen or twenty minutes. (She left out one batch of roasted garlic to make space.)

At first it was no dice. I even tried the ice on the plunger end trick. It wasn't really hot yet, though. I could hold my hand on it momentarily before it started to burn.

I put it back in for another ten minutes. At that point it was really too hot to touch at all. I got Garlic Mom's BIG junk drawer screwdriver and pried between the spring coils. It looked like it budged. I pried some more. There was definitely some space between the coils now, so I had worked the plunger back up some.

It took quite a while of prying it up and tapping it down with a hammer, but pretty soon, the plunger was moving as far as the sleeve would allow. The sleeve was still REALLY stuck on the plunger though.

I reheated it a couple of times and kept working it back and forth, using various wedges to hold the sleeve in one position or another. Another twenty minute's work and it is now working really nice.

Here's a short video of me working it by hand. You can see the sleeve moving with the plunger, but when it hits the stop, the plunger moves the rest of the way through the sleeve.

https://youtu.be/Nhum5QYOn-Y" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/Nhum5QYOn-Y

And here's a short video where I've used a paperclip to hold the sleeve in one position. You can see the marks on the plunger where the sleeve was stuck.

https://youtu.be/wOm6GWo3T9U" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/wOm6GWo3T9U

Now my only problem is going to be the sleeve control shaft with the sheared key.

https://postimg.org/image/pyiiyw145/" rel="nofollow">

https://postimg.org/image/woz08b8ud/" rel="nofollow">

https://postimg.org/image/gqqai71rp/" rel="nofollow">

https://postimg.org/image/rdk3nmpcl/" rel="nofollow">

rymram, you mentioned silver soldering it, but the sleeve has a slot and the key is rectangular so it needs to rotate in relation to the shaft to say parallel with the slot.

I bet I could get away with just putting a blob of silver solder on the end and shaping it into a round plug. As long as the plug didn't bind in the slot and didn't come off, it should hold that sleeve wherever it needs to. The sleeve can't really put much torque on the shaft, I believe it essentially floats in there, when it isn't bound up to the plunger.

I may just try the solder blob and see what happens. It won't wear as well as the proper system, but it'll probably last for the rest of my life.

Pete.

Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 3:27pm

If you have some real good silver solder, why don't you just heat the two parts up and soldier them back together...have to clean the faces good good, and clean all the extra material away. Good luck.

-------------
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 4:02pm

You probably have a good chance of getting that part in useable condition out of a dead pump. Then you'll know it is right.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 5:15pm

Last weekend I succeeded in brazing a blob on the end of the shaft where the tang was. Here’s a photo of the result. It seemed to work quite well, didn’t bind and the sleeve moved up and down as it should.

https://postimg.org/image/7hk111uat/" rel="nofollow">

I reassembled the pump and cranked the engine a bit. I got fuel from one injector supply port, but only one! I could control the flow by working the governor arm back and forth, from significant pulses down to nothing in the shutdown position.

I was confused about why I only got fuel from one supply port until I watched the rotator gear while cranking. The gear wasn’t rotating anymore. Looking closer, I noticed that the timing window through the sheet metal cover had shifted somewhat. That is as far as I could get last weekend.

Yesterday, I took the hydraulic head off to see what was the damage. The sheet metal retainer over the driven gear had rotated and gotten bound between the teeth of the drive gear and driven gear.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/lrozz4dn9/] https://s26.postimg.org/gga3eerkp/20180120_103615.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/m4ge5byhx/] https://s26.postimg.org/qdl47i1rd/20180120_103832.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/4eepk9q1x/] https://s26.postimg.org/h5svqrzu1/20180120_103833.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/7l993vncl/] https://s26.postimg.org/qqcidn20p/20180120_103835.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/jn4my09fp/] https://s26.postimg.org/ols5cjd8p/20180120_103840.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

I know the reason for this problem. When I tried to reassemble the hydraulic head the first time, there was a small piece of sheet metal over the drive gear on the end of the quill shaft which interfered with the rotator gear teeth, preventing the hydraulic head from lowering all the way into place.

I fiddled and fiddled, trying to move the rotator gear teeth slightly one way or another to fish them past the little piece of sheet metal without luck. Finally, I decided that the sheet metal over the quill shaft must have moved out a bit from the position where it belongs. I bent it back just a bit with a punch to get it to clear the rotator gear teeth.

That adjustment allowed the hydraulic head to lower down, but apparently that piece of sheet metal over the quill shaft is supposed to prevent the sheet metal cover over the rotator gear from rotating itself and binding in the gear teeth.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/umpu9m7kl/] https://s26.postimg.org/ixlulngm1/20180120_103856.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/f18ipmdlx/] https://s26.postimg.org/667of3otl/20180120_103857.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/41nbe2cx1/] https://s26.postimg.org/yvukbsijt/20180120_103900.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Since the pump was pumping, but not rotating, I knew the main pump drive shaft was rotating with the engine. There had to be a catastrophic failure somewhere in the quill shaft or rotator gear. I pulled the pump and disassembled to investigate.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/cc94lml91/] https://s26.postimg.org/yo6xf0kd5/20180121_082241.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/b9yy31zut/] https://s26.postimg.org/qvg9n0bt5/20180121_082236.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/fvv2bf0th/] https://s26.postimg.org/46r2ng9ux/20180121_082213.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/o1d49r4jp/] https://s26.postimg.org/9i5z8cbex/20180121_083015.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/egthmwa2t/] https://s26.postimg.org/lwsr8oxs9/20180121_083019.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/mmbjl0o11/] https://s26.postimg.org/t00mo9sx5/20180121_083219.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Here’s the problem. The quill shaft twisted off the helical gear on the bottom of it.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/ipy7p0nlx/] https://s26.postimg.org/hno16h4sp/20180121_083354.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/tcs0ufgbp/] https://s26.postimg.org/m9k5etaw9/20180121_083359.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/ax7jx2k7p/] https://s26.postimg.org/yo6xf6kex/20180121_083432.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/6bbfoqtjp/] https://s26.postimg.org/sahubyae1/20180121_083810.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Here is a picture of the drive gear end of the quill shaft. It turns out the sheet metal I saw wasn’t attached to the housing, it is a little sheet metal hat attached to the top of the quill shaft with a single little cutout.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/uf27d7js5/] https://s26.postimg.org/qiovh7ysp/20180121_083827.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Apparently that sheet metal hat provides a guide to keep the sheet metal cover over the rotator gear from doing what it did to me. The hat has a cutout to allow the hydraulic head rotator gear teeth to drop into mesh when the cutout is oriented properly. I assume that the cutout is aligned properly when the engine has the No. 1 cylinder at top dead center, since that is how timing is accomplished.

Luckily, my buddy Daron has three surplus military deuce and a half engines, each with American Bosch fuel pumps. I made a quick trip up the hill to California City for spare parts.

He acquired these engines through a government liquidation auction back around 1980. They haven’t run or rotated since then, but they’ve been pretty well protected. Two have the pumps still mounted and plumbed, but one had the pump removed and sitting next to the engine in the crate. We took that one because it was easy.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/on2364f45/] https://s26.postimg.org/6x0el31jd/20180121_063430.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/oaaozy4k5/] https://s26.postimg.org/hju7qiheh/20180121_063445.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/lg7jmh7it/] https://s26.postimg.org/cl6pbyiqh/20180121_063512.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

It is a PSB6 pump, although a slightly different variant. Hopefully the internal parts I need will be the same as mine.

The military pumps have an interesting timing advance mechanism between the pump and the engine accessory drive. It apparently works from oil pressure, as it has a line that connects from the pump oil supply to its housing.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/7cboe1q0l/] https://s26.postimg.org/m8a7ln1fd/20180121_072609.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

I separated them and can see it has a slight helical gear with springs which push the drive out on the helix. As oil pressure (or perhaps shaft RPMs) increase, the springs are compressed and the helix changes the injection timing slightly.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/5xa3pb9hx/] https://s26.postimg.org/8eluwkteh/20180121_072615.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/xxe79m03p/] https://s26.postimg.org/d0hz4y22x/20180121_072621.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/v3b1w5ihx/] https://s26.postimg.org/esaxzu609/20180121_072626.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/m8a7ll3z9/] https://s26.postimg.org/hme3d8ig9/20180121_072629.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

After separating the variable timing drive, the first order of business was to remove the governor control shaft. If this sleeve locator tang was intact, I didn’t want to risk breaking this one. Pulling the shutoff cover, the inside was promisingly clean and rust free.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/n80ihdylh/] https://s26.postimg.org/yx4i5cpk9/20180121_063623.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

I removed the hairpin clip on the governor shaft, pushed the shaft back through the pivot arm and removed the two shaft retainer screws and clamp. They all came off nicely and easily.

I tried to be careful not to put any rotating force to the shaft at all. I tried to pry carefully on the retainer ears and the governor arm itself. Nothing wanted to move.

I gradually escalated my efforts, prying a little harder each time. I couldn’t get the shaft or retainer to budge. I finally resorted to trying to very slightly rotate the shaft retainer ears, thinking perhaps it was gummy or a bit stuck.

At first I couldn’t even get the shaft to rotate at all. Eventually I was able to just very slightly rotate the retainer a fraction one way, then a fraction the other. I felt confident that I wasn’t moving it enough to shear the tang off. I was just moving it enough to have a barely perceptible movement.

I kept prying gently while very slightly rotating it one way, then the other. One time, I pried a bit too hard and broke off one of the shaft retainer ears, but it still wouldn’t come out.

Finally, I decided to apply some heat, so I carefully and gently heated the hydraulic head around the area where the shaft penetrates. I was taking a risk because of the rubber seal behind the shaft and the other passages and seals inside the head, but I had to get the shaft out one way or another.

Eventually, after several cycles of heat, working slightly back and forth and prying, getting it a bit hotter each time, I got the shaft to come out.

Unfortunately, once the shaft was out, it was apparent that its tang had been sheared long ago and the shaft, the sleeve and what I could see of the plunger were very crusty and corroded. Apparently this part of the system had suffered from years of being empty with an opening to humidity.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/bb8vwymed/] https://s26.postimg.org/xzy2wj3s9/20180121_120220.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/rm8ztam1h/] https://s26.postimg.org/5ab6zwmxl/20180121_120227.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/n80ihdylh/] https://s26.postimg.org/yx4i5cpk9/20180121_063623.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/m5qbytd79/] https://s26.postimg.org/6x0el1jix/20180121_071148.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/lsyxsosdh/] https://s26.postimg.org/eczo6w4o9/20180121_071153.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Obviously, this pump wasn’t going to be a donor for a sleeve control shaft. That is O. K. Daron has two more we can investigate for that piece and this pump still might have the other parts I need.

I pulled the quill shaft out, which looked great.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/uds9jrn39/] https://s26.postimg.org/ml1lrsh49/20180121_073008.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/lirf9960l/] https://s26.postimg.org/d0hz4wzi1/20180121_073041.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/js8e7ee39/] https://s26.postimg.org/cc94llqe1/20180121_073049.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

One point I’d like to confirm with those who have been there before me relates to aligning the sheet metal window on the quill shaft hat. I assumed that I need to align the timing pointer on the pump drive with the timing mark, then install the quill shaft such that the window in the hat faces out, allowing the hydraulic head gear to drop in.

In this photo, you can see the pointer, with the timing mark about twenty degrees past the pointer.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/5lsncly7p/] https://s26.postimg.org/4jigu2feh/20180121_083817.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Here is how I installed the quill shaft with the line aligned with the pointer. It made me a bit nervous that the sheet metal hat isn’t quite centered, but I tried one tooth in either direction and this is clearly the best fit.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/oe4ig7a1h/] https://s26.postimg.org/urtljgexl/20180121_084239.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

Now, my problem is to find out how to put the No. 1 cylinder on top dead center of the compression stroke. I found the timing window on the flywheel housing. It is in an easy to get to spot which is impossible to see because of the torque converter hoses and other stuff in the way.

I pulled the valve cover and rotated the engine by hand a handful of times, identifying when the No. 1 cylinder valves were rocking from one closing to the other opening. From there, I rotate the engine three hundred sixty degrees, figuring that should be close to top dead center.

Garlic Mom got her flashlight and hand mirror and squeezed between the tire and frame to watch the timing window for me.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/ax7jxbs05/] https://s26.postimg.org/rkz1ztmrt/20180121_095320.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

We went back and forth about thirty degrees on either side of where I thought top dead center was. We decided that this hole and circle must be the top dead center mark, as it seemed to be just in the right spot. That spot also corresponded pretty well with 360 degrees from the valve rock point. Is this really the timing mark?

[url=https://postimg.org/image/iegrc3745/] https://s26.postimg.org/96oive021/20180121_100343.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/7245uab9x/] https://s26.postimg.org/pug0xv7o9/20180121_100531.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

If it is, I should be at top dead center for the No. 1 cylinder. By the way, I assume that No. 1 is the one closest to the fan and furthest from the flywheel.

I see that the pump drive gear has a FRONT mark and a timing punch mark on a tooth immediately below that FRONT mark.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/v5uximjh1/] https://s26.postimg.org/xafajpl3t/20180121_102105.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

If I’m right about the position of the engine, I expected to find a timing mark on the accessory drive gear. I couldn’t find anything though.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/ipy7pf0l1/] https://s26.postimg.org/4w9v0d7zt/20180121_102304_001.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

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I see that the pump drive gear has slotted bolt holes. I assume I need to find the timing mark on the accessory drive gear and set the gear in, then align the pump drive flange score to the pump timing pointer, then tighten down the drive gear on to the pump drive flange. That will ensure the quill shaft hat window will allow the hydraulic head to drop on. At the same time, the hydraulic head rotator gear will be timed because the marked tooth will be aligned with the timing pointer in the timing window of the pump itself.

Those in the know, please confirm the above pump installation procedures. If I’m right about the procedure, maybe I don’t need to worry too much about timing marks between the accessory drive gear and the pump drive gear. As long as the engine really has No. 1 at top dead center on the compression stroke and I have enough room in the pump drive gear slots to align the pump drive flange score mark with the pump timing pointer, everything should be O. K.

Now for some questions about the rotating gear, the tin cover for it and the drive from the rotating gear to the plunger itself.

I can see that the tin cover is assembled by slipping it over the rotating gear and hydraulic head flange, then it is crimped in four places and staked at one place (which should keep it from rotating).

Since my tin cover got chewed up, I didn’t see any loss by prying it off.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/z289eszdh/] https://s26.postimg.org/6pcrocdnd/20180121_103818.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

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If I had to, I think I could straight this cover out and salvage it, but I think I’m better off to carefully remove the tin cover from Daron’s donor pump. It appears to be in perfect shape and I don’t see any differences in this area between the two pumps.

If I can remove the tin cover from the donor pump, should I be O. K. to just recrimp in the same four places with a screwdriver, then stake it with a punch in the same place as is provided on both hydraulic heads?

Once I had the tin cover off, I could see what I think are other problems. The rotating gear operates on what I think is supposed to be a one piece collar which has two ears engaged in recesses in the rotating gear and has a square opening through which the square part of the plunger shaft passes.

On my pump, this collar is in two pieces. It must have split when the plunger was seized and the engine was first rotated. It is possible that it is supposed to be in two pieces, I haven’t taken apart the donor hydraulic head yet.

I don’t think it is supposed to be in two pieces because the two pieces aren’t symmetrical and the plunger shaft is able to move rather a lot in relation to the rotating gear. Here are some pictures of the assembly as it is now, including a couple which show the plunger shaft rotated within the collar one way, then the other.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/w8541chrp/] https://s26.postimg.org/7245uighl/20180121_105737.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

[url=https://postimg.org/image/xafajvsv9/] https://s26.postimg.org/5ztzbypyh/20180121_105744.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

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[url=https://postimg.org/image/4ksengu2t/] https://s26.postimg.org/3v9mb3tjd/20180121_105752.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url" rel="nofollow - [/url ]

The plunger does rotate with the gear, but I’d estimate there is probably fifteen or twenty degrees of play with the system the way it currently is. I can’t imagine this is acceptable. Without disassembling the donor hydraulic head, I can see that all the rotating gear and drive stuff is in good shape and doesn’t appear to have the slack that this system has. Is it likely I can swap the drive collar from the donor pump onto this one?

I know I can’t swap plungers, as they’re matched. I would expect this drive collar and the square part of the plunger to be standardized though, so I hope exchanging the drive collar shouldn’t be a problem.

That leads me to what I hope is my last question: If the drive collar can be exchanged, I have four possibilities to assemble the rotating gear onto the plunger shaft. How do I time the shaft to the drive collar? Is it as simple as aligning the spill slot in the plunger with the timing tooth on the rotating gear? Maybe there is a timing mark on the plunger shaft end that I haven’t noticed?

Thanks for any help the group can give me.

I think if I can accumulate all the knowledge and hopefully find one good governor control shaft with a good tang on it from Daron, I might be able to reassemble this thing and hear it run next weekend.

Pete.

Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 5:17pm

Apparently only the first photo link above worked. The links worked in other posts, maybe my post had too many characters. I'm going to try again in three pieces here.