Max 8070 hp
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=140831
Printed Date: 28 Sep 2024 at 12:22am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Max 8070 hp
Posted By: victoryallis
Subject: Max 8070 hp
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2017 at 9:27pm
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What is the maximum horsepower that a 8070 could put to the ground? Doubt I could get enough to pull my finisher but curious. Talking fwa with good radial duals and a 8.3 Cummins under the hood. I'm sure the drivetrain has its limits. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2017 at 11:35pm
| ...yes....we are all looking at you a little cross eyed and not answering... |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 5:39am
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Here's more to the story. My articulated FW30 Ford needs to leave. Wondering how much I could harness out of a MFWD 8000 series to try to avoid the pitfalls of a articulated tractor. Thinking the 8.3 since its no secret the 426 has reliability issues when it's pushed to the very max. I have an 8030 now and really like it toying with big brother on steroids. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 6:32am
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I put this under FAKE news! The 426 didn't have reliability problems when it was pushed with hp, it had issues with rpms. Your 8.3 will have the same issues as does any diesel. It's a myth about 426 engines not handling hp. The ones that failed on the N6 and 7080 7580 were from the process of hardening the crank, that showed up with high rpms. Allis Chalmers cured that with a longer bolt, putting the nose of the crank under compression, and on the 8070 slowing the rpms. Now here comes all the anacdotal replies of the 426 failures, that always come if someone defends that engine. |
Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:30am
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Short answer in MY opinion is 225 pto. I would have a pryometer installed and pull it so you are minimizing the shifts under load, etc. Be sensible. Had a 8050 with motor out of a 7140 magnum (8.3 with intercooler) and it wakened it up bigtime! I realize it was rated about 50 horse more but there was a reason guys thought it a wise business decision to do the conversion. No idea on hardened cranks, Mr. KC gets all bent out of shape when the C word is mentioned. I do have a 7045 and think it is one of the best tractors ever made. There's 5 conversions in the neighborhood and everyone loves theirs. The tranny may last longer if you're down shifting less often. ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 12:25pm
| For best results, try and operate the Power Shift in 6th gear or Power Director in 5th gear low button. Do not weight it down heavily. Let it spin some. |
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 1:45pm
| I don't actually freak out with the C word! Lol. What bothers me is guys that have a 426 that needs work, rather than spend the money to overhaul it go threw the engine properly , they give it a $3000 overhaul and than are disappointed because it doesn't perform. Than bastardise the tractor with a new or newer 8.3 and rant and rave about its performance etc.One thing is most 8.3 had a P pump on Vs that ambac hand grenade, that nobody wants to spend the money on to properly go thru that either. Not to mention every conversion that comes up for sale is priced cheaper than the 426 counterpart. I have many "C "word engines, and alot of people think it's a small version of the legendary 855 big cam, and they're not even close. B and C series engines aren't in that calibre . |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 2:09pm
| I'm with ya KCGrain, I seen the same pulled the guts out of it, turned up weighted down then things finally come apart and Allis is junk , no proper maintanice, just rolling the black smoke, head shaking for sure |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 2:22pm
| My pump guy says the M100 is a good system when all the proper settings are made but mine was used up and since it was getting an inframe we put an A pump on it (8070)just because. It's set around 225 and pulls implements designed for the tractor,just easier.No weights,fluid inside,radial 18.4 and radial duals.HMMM I'd have to go look.It may have one weight on inside. |
Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 5:36pm
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I'm no engine guru, don't pretend to be. But the 8050 I had was a good tractor for the 10 years it had the 426. It spun a bearing on the crankshaft around 3500 hours and I needed a 200 pto horse tractor. This was 2002 when corn was still under 2 bucks I believe. Instead of updating to a newer tractor for 50 grand or more, the decision was made to bastardize the tractor with a cummins 505 cubic inch 8.3. Our mechanic, an AC guy thru and thru said it would be roughly the same $ rebuild the allis or drop in a used cummins. My experience was better lugging, not horsepower TORQUE! And the fact it would fire on the second revolution when it was 10 degrees F was nice also. If something happens to my 7045, I would rebuild the 426 in a heartbeat! You can talk about if you woulda done this or that the 426 would hold up, hardened, balanced crankshaft, better oil whatever. The tractor served us well and not a problem at all holding 200 horse in the 10 years after the conversion. Sold it locally to a guy who had a 8070 with the C word and he wanted another. Still going! ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 8:08pm
| Again, not comparing apples to apples. An ambac pump will never run toe to toe with a P pump. The engine has nothing to do with torque and power. The old Rosa master pump was better at torque and power than an ambac. What your experiencing is the feeling of the fuel system, not the brand of engine. And the spun bearing had more to do with the pump than Allis Chalmers |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:01pm
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I'm not going to argue about engines however I do agree with Kc. To compare an early 80s 426 to an 8.3 Cummins is apples and oranges That said. If you want a 225 horse tractor buy a 250 horse tractor and turn it down. You will never work on it. If you crank up a 170 horse tractor to 225 don't bitch when you are putting a trans or rearend in it. Those engineers weren't stupid. |
Posted By: kinghunter
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:11pm
| Here local to me there are several allis with the 8.3 conversions and as I'm true to allis. Everyone of the farmers that have one love them with the new motors. I know two are around 250 maybe more and are pulled hard. I have no doubt the allis drive train can handle it if put in a gear and left alone. I question one farmer about his as I've seen it pulling front end up with plow behind it and he said never shift under load and keep rolling on. |
Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:30pm
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Of course it's not comparing apples to apples, that's the point. When faced with the decision, it was a no brainer for me and the other traitors. (if that's what you want to call us) ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:32pm
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Have 2 426's around and 3 8.3 Cummins around sorry I'm not a purist but I'll take a 8.3. The Cummins start easily 10 degrees colder and easier on fuel. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:44pm
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What you need is a 71 series Detroit in it - or a 6V-92 then no worry about lack of power or reliability ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2017 at 9:49pm
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Well then sounds like you already know the answer so why did you ask the question. I'm not a purest but I do take issue in turning up tractors. My neighbor is always complaining about his 8070 because it's always at the dealer and he likes to turn the screw out. We have an L2 8050 and 8070 fwa all stock and have never had an issue. All do everything I ask. And they all start at 0 degrees if I plug them in. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 4:39am
My initial question wasn't what is better a 426 or a 8.3 it was basically how much of the upgraded motor can I harness in a straight frame tractor and do it without breakiing something. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
wekracer wrote:Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 5:30am
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"The engine has nothing to do with torque and power" ??? "Nothing" might be a bit of a stretch there, no?
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 6:10am
In fact I tell the pump rebuilder to not set a pump to 10% over like most rebuilders do. Guy who did my 670T inj pump for my L2 didn't listen and set it 10% or 15% above factory. I won't go back to him. I like stock hp because I know that is what my machine was designed for. Remember what Mark (aka 427435) said about increasing torque and how it reduces power train life by quite a bit. I may not have agreed with Mark on a lot of things but that subject I certainly do. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 6:34am
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"What is the maximum horsepower that a 8070 could put to the ground" First sentence of first post. Nothing about should I redo a 426 or put in a Cummins, nothing about bragging rights, nothing about purity, never stated a horsepower number he had in mind. Simple question about the tractor chassis putting power to the ground, what can it handle.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 6:37am
| victoryallis, what "pitfalls of an articulated tractor" are you referring to? |
Posted By: Dans 7080
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 6:49am
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Wasn't the 8070 deliberately reduced in power from the 7080 because they didn't think the powershift would hold up? ------------- When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 7:15am
But hell if all you care about is putting max HP to the ground the pullers are putting 1000 plus hp to the ground routinely. Good luck! ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 9:08am
Well, it isn't my question. Decaf for my Minnesotan friend please.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 9:10am
| If your answer is the only safe HP is as designed, that's totally fine by me. I don't have a single turned up unit on my farm, or even an engines swap. |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 9:17am
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I need a beer! Or maybe 6! These threads always make me shake my head! You want 250 HP go buy a dog designed for it! As for the Cummings or Cummin or what ever the hell you call conversion....ain't no way a guy can transition one for less or the same money as a complete 426 rebuild! And in talking out of frame, radiator recore with 7th vein added and a complete fuel system rebuild! I have a dealer do it and I've done them in my shop! I completely agree with KCGrain on this. I own 2 8070's and they are set at 185 HP. And I feel that is the top end of safe without exceletating engine component wear! ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 9:23am
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tornado, turn it back to a slight breeze and have that beer. I'm probably coming across like an . ...well, it doesn't need to be said....everybody knows how I'm coming across.....but the original poster never ever mentioned 250 HP, or any other HP for that matter. He already has 3 of the Cummins engines around, so no cost of acquisition.
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Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 9:33am
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Original post also forgot to mention the 3 engine on hand. Besides if they are used it would be silly to go through all the work to shove a engine in without rebuilding it prior. And you still can't rebuild a Cummings cheaper than a 426, when doing a complete rebuild. ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:00am
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Ya know it's not so much the fact of doing the repower as much of the fact that everyone I've ever seen are so hacked up and slobbed together it's horrible. Oil leaks, cables and gauges not functioning as they should. Hoods and panels all chopped up. I can't be a fan of that. Owning 6 8000 series tractor that earn their keep, and always looking to acquire one more, a tractor of that nature won't get a second look from me. That's my opinion, like it or not..... ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:06am
BTW I run on mountain dew no coffee for me. Not enough norsk in my blood. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:16am
The original POST did not mention the 3 engines. The original postER did, which is what I said.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:47am
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Tornado. I have a converted 7580 that the guy that did it honestly made it look factory. Radiator cools better than my stock 8030 does.and the 8030 is a recent recore with all the foam in place. Hood panels are intact exhaust is routed out the factory hole. No oil leaks and dash is stock except the push pull knob is disconnected and it has a dial oil pressure gauge. Sometime your in my area stop in I'll show you. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:54am
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Never said I had 3 sitting around I have 3 in service. The 8.3 in other applications runs 260 hp at close to that point it would get tempting if it could be somewhat harnessed. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:59am
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I could respect a neatly done repower, I still won't do it on my tractors. Victory if your ever over this way your welcome to stop in as well. If you wanna push an 8070 chassis put it in one with a PD. ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 11:30am
| I'm still curious about what you mean by pitfalls of an articulated tractor. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 1:41pm
1) In my experience they cost more to own. 2) Take more shed space. 3) Hinge area needs frequent greasing some of the U joints are a real treat. 4) Outside of Allis and the pre 60 series Deere most are bareback. 5) Nearly impossible to see the drawbar when hooking up. In the end odds are I'll buy another. just exploring my options. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 7:44pm
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Maybe pop corn with that beer! ------------- CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070 |
Posted By: Dkienzle
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2017 at 10:13pm
| Find and early one with the big finals, and a power director, set it at 245 and let it rip. That's what ours is set at. How big is your finisher? We pull a 22 ft sunflower, could probably pull 24. Your 7580 would pull a 15 knife aa bar in rolling ground, our 7080 would only pull 13, I run out of traction before power. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 5:25am
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31 foot but toyed with a 25 foot or so. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Austin IL
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 8:22am
| Buy an 8550 and have about $10,000 left in ur pocket. You won't have to worry about lack of hp. |
Posted By: Austin IL
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 8:25am
More hp because of the pump of course, not because of the engine 
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Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 2:41pm
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Austin Lol!! ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 6:02pm
| Laugh away, take your beloved B or C series Cummins and put a little Rosa master pump on it rather than the P pump and let me know what kind of power you have or feel. We'll see who laughs than😎 |
Posted By: Austin IL
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 6:53pm
| KCgrain i usually laugh every time i see u post. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 8:44pm
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Now boys behave ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |