How to replace leaking PTO seal?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=139658
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Topic: How to replace leaking PTO seal?
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Subject: How to replace leaking PTO seal?
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 7:25pm
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Hey all, i had my wife using our new to us Kuhn disc mower a little bit today to practice. It was a lot of fun and she did great. Needs to get the rpm and mph up a bit more but that will come. I have just finished rebuilding the floor and getting the pto lever hooked up and working; this was actually our first time with an implement on and moving. When i was testing the implement out earlier i noticed a small leak behind the pto, a drop every handful of seconds. By the time my wife finished mowing it was actually a steady stream! I pulled the output shaft off but i'm not sure how to pull the shaft assembly so if someone could advise there i would really appreciate it. I attached a picture of the diagram. It's leaking from behind the shaft assembly, so that must mean it is the "seal" #11, right? Is it straightforward to change the seal once i get the shaft assembly out?   THANK YOU!!!
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Replies:
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:39pm
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Would help if we knew what tractor you have. Looks like it could be a 6080. If so pull rear housing. MACK |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 6:42am
| Thank you Mack it is a 1983 6080. Can you elaborate a little more? How do I pull the rear housing? What do I do after that? |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 8:09am
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Okay so it looks like i just remove these 9 bolts. There is no gasket listed between the cover and the case. Is there a gasket there? How does it not leak if there is no gasket? Do i need to use rtv ultra black to make one? Could someone give me a loose guideline on this? 1) Drain diff oil 2) remove rear cover 3) Is that #11 seal just right there? Is it possible something else is the problem?  |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 9:51am
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After rear housing is removed, there are some gears to remove before seal. Check length of PTO shaft to make sure shaft is not too long causing binding of shaft. Make sure PTO is engaged before removing rear housing or you will loose coupler. MACK |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 10:30am
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Thanks Mack. How do i check the length of the PTO shaft to make sure it isnt too long? Is it pretty straightforward to remove the gears? A bolts or snap rings kind of thing? Thank you for the tip on engaging the PTO. That is the kind of thing i'm afraid to do incorrectly. |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 12:52pm
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Also i'm still curious about a gasket between the main case and the rear cover. |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 8:48pm
I had to do that little while ago on my 6080. Lot of work for 1 seal. Mine was slowly dripping even when shut off, so it had to be done. Make sure the PTO disconnect (Left side by seat) is engaged. That way the coupler won't fall down when you pull the rear assembly. There is a long PTO shaft that goes over the top of the ring gear that will come out with the unit. I only took a few pictures. Here is what is left after you pull the rear unit. It has silocone on it from the factory, you can see some of it left. I use aerobic sealer, much better product, also a little more expensive.  This is what the shaft looks like when you get it out. I didn't take any more pictures.
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Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 8:49pm
| You don't have to pull off the top 3 point, I had to reseal that also. |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 8:58pm
Here is a picture form the service manual that shows the backside with the long shaft sticking out. Once you get it off it is pretty straight forward to get at the seal.  |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 8:59am
| Just make sure PTO don't collapse when 3 point is raised up and down. MACK |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 9:17am
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LB if you hear of someone singing your praises, that was me! Thanks a lot, that really helps give me a better idea. Mine is also dripping now with the tractor off. I will be sure to pick up some aerobic sealer. It will be worth it to only do the job once. Did you have to remove the PTO shaft assembly or can you leave it connected to the rear cover and work around it? Thanks Mack, i wont touch the 3 point hitch while i'm doing the job. |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 2:09pm
I didn't spell it right or it could be that stupid auto correct. Here is a picture of the sealer.  It goes on really thin, don't put it on heavy like RTV. Seals very well on thick surfaces. I use it on gaskets also for a little extra piece of mind.
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Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 7:01pm
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I did get that exact sealer, thank you. I got hung up getting the case removed tonight. Got the case free and pulled it out about 2 inches before it stopped coming out. I wiggled and jiggled and reefed on it while doing so, and it did not budge any more than the two inches. My pto is engaged and my pto clutch is out (also engaged). Tractor is in neutral. Is there something i'm missing? In the shop manual it says to just move it rearward. I had another hand helping me and together we could not get it to come back more than those couple inches. Please let me know if someone has an idea or has encountered this before. Thank you (big thanks to Joe for the manual!!!!)  |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 9:12pm
| That long PTO shaft is the only thing that is holding it up from coming apart. It is a pretty heavy unit so I use an engine hoist to lift on it while pulling backwards, run a bolt through the top link hole to hook onto. Since it is so heavy it tends to drop down in the back and push up on that shaft which causes the bind. You will have to pick up on the PTO shaft to try and level it out when pulling at the same time. When you get it out you will see that the shaft wants to stick up in the air. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 9:17pm
| The shaft has to come through a bearing which is same size as shaft. Get rear housing straight with tractor and pry it straight back. MACK |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 9:21pm
Here are the other 2 pages of the FSM regarding the PTO. In case you need it.  |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 6:56pm
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Thanks for that. I attacked it after work and used a 3 ton auto jack to line up the holes around the case. I pulled and twisted and shimmied. Kept making adjustments up and down and left and right from what looked like dead center. After an hour... no luck. My clutch lever is engaged, but it is seized engaged. Could that have any effect? My old man is coming over in the morning and we are going to keep doing more of the same. I'll keep you updated. |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2017 at 6:40pm
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Well we got it! It took all day but the seal is replaced. We ran in to a few hiccups along the way. The shaft did not want to come through the bearing so I bought a couple 6 inch bolts and threaded them through on the top so the cover would have rails to slide off on. We did some prying and pulling and it finally came, but it took the bearing with it. I guess that was better than fussing with it any more. The main nut on the cover was on incredibly tight plus had the locking indents on it. After we struggled with it for a while we loaded it up in the back of the car and drove to my uncles mechanic garage where we could put an impact gun on it. 700 ft lb and it broke right free. Getting to the seal after that was pretty simple, just some nuts and gears mostly. Seal didn't have anything obviously wrong with it. Assembly was the reverse. Had to take a 2x4 and narrow one end to make it more like a 2x3 to reach in past the differential and knock that bearing back in to place for the main shaft. Put that anaerobic sealer to it. Shaft when in alright with the same long bolts rail system and we got it sealed up. Took about 5-6 gallons of tractor fluid. I have a question on the fluid. I have a small leak on the steering hydraulic pison. Where does this piston get its fluid from? The differential fluid? Somewhere else? What about the fluid for the loader and the rear remotes? I would like to check levels but I'm not sure where they pull thier fluid from. THANK YOU! |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2017 at 7:04pm
| The fluid for the remotes(loader) and steering all come from the rear differential. If you ever change the rear diff oil don't forget to clean the suction screen for the pump. The trans on these is a separate unit that takes about 3 gallons to fill it. |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2017 at 9:31pm
| Thanks LB I'm going to change the trans oil next. My serial number is a few hundred after they changed over to no suction screen. |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 10:30am
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Well, I unfortunately felt the need to go back in to it. The cover came off a lot faster the second time. While the PTO did not have a load on it, engaged at low rpm, I could hear a metal clapping noise coming from the pto. As you shut the tractor off and the pto comes to a halt, it slaps worse for a couple seconds until it stops rotating. I did not remember hearing this noise before and I forgot to knock the indents back in on the main nut, so I feared it had come undone. It hadnt. There does not seem to be ANY play between gears. When I move the main shaft (going in to the rear) and back and forth, it jingles like a bell. It soinds similar to the clapping noise, just not as pronoubced. Is this a bad bearing? Is it normal? I took a video of the sound, I'll see if I can get it posted tonight. Thanks all and hope you have a great independence day. |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 9:16pm
| If I remember right the shift fork which changes 540 to 1000 is spring loaded one way. Could be something in that area, if the gears and the nut on the output PTO shaft is tight. I try to get that nut just past where the previous stakes were. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 9:53pm
| Sounds like linkage is not moving gear all the way into 540 or 1000 and gears are touching. MACK |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 10:15pm
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Hmm it's difficult to say. I could feel the clunking in my hand when I was holding the top of the long shaft and spinning it back and forth. It's definitely in that shaft somewhere in the back of the cover. I did not touch the adjustment for that shift fork and the spring is on just as I had taken it off. I will keep you all updated if anything happens. Thank you for chiming in. |
Posted By: AC6080MAINE
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 1:40pm
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I finally got around to making a youtube account and posting the video. As the PTO runs, i can hear a ringing sound. With the PTO still running when the tractor is turned off, as the PTO comes to a stop it makes a louder clapping metal on metal ringing. Could you guys take a look at the video and see if you can identify an issue? Thank you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QA8YGx1bM0" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QA8YGx1bM0 |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 10:00pm
| Gears are touching each other for some reason. Does it do it in both 1000 and 540? MACK |
Posted By: LB0442
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 10:46pm
| The upper shaft that goes to the trans is pretty straight forward, shaft with bearings. I don't even take it out of that bolt on holder. I think the problem is in the stack of the 540 and 1000 gears. One of the thrust washers has a lip or groove on it that goes one way. Possibly a thrust washer is in the wrong spot or that nut is not tight enough, it has to be really tight. The 540 gear(rear one) is spring loaded engaged all the time and when you use the 1000 output shaft it pushes against the spring to engage the 1000 gear splines. |
Posted By: Ac6080me
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 10:48am
| Hi Trent here have pto problems with 6080 I recently got I'm 50 miles north of you approx could we talk on phone. |