Allis 7050 will not move.
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130348
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2024 at 10:15pm
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Topic: Allis 7050 will not move.
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Subject: Allis 7050 will not move.
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:03pm
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Our 7050 engine runs great. All fluids are full. We were unloading Hay with it and the darn thing quit moving. No snaps, no groans, just quit moving. Goes into each gear fine. I got my Allen wrench out and Checked the clamp above the right rear wheel. That is tight. Getting ready to pull up the floor plate in the cab. Assuming it is more complicated than we can fix in our small home shop. We plan to remove the loader and the cab before we take it into the one and only local tractor repair shop that charges $180 per labor hour plus parts. What other trouble shooting can we do at home to narrow down the problem? |
Replies:
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:09pm
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If you lost all your hydraulics, steering and PTO operation as well I would suspect that the torque limiter that transfers power from the engine to the drive train let go. If so a tractor split and rather large shop bill that may be worth more than the tractor is is on your way.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:12pm
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Research torque limiter. My 7580 suddenly stopped moving ended up losing the tranny input shaft. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:23pm
| All the Hydraulics work fine. The tractor just will not move forward or backward. |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:24pm
| And the stearing is fine. Front wheels turn left and right no problem. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:25pm
| Regardless of the problem, I don't see any reason to remove the cab. Does the 1800 rpm pressure light work and if so, is it on? Buttons hanging up in the floor board? High or low range both? |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:33pm
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Pressure lights work and are not on. No the floor board button is not hung up. and does not work in High or Low range. Reason for taking the cab off before it goes to the shop is that it needs removed to split the tractor anyway. The shop charges $180 a labor hour and every hour of work we do is worth it. |
Posted By: Dans 7080
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:37pm
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The cab does no need to be removed to split the tractor at the torque limiter. ------------- When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:43pm
| That is good News. Looking at the manual right now trying to figure out how to access it to see if that is the problem. |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 12:45pm
| Tho as I read and research torque limiter over 3/4 of the comments are that the tractor needs split to replace it... |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 1:08pm
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And in conformation of needing the tractor split for repair of the Torque Limiter is Paragraph 75 page 34 of the repair Manuel. To split the tractor the cab must be removed. But still the hydraulics and steering work, would this not be an indication it is not the Torque Limiter? |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 1:24pm
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Trust us 'shade tree' folks, the cab doesn't have to come off, even for a full trans removal and rebuild. Yes, some mounting bolts have to come off, but the cab does not need to be removed. I am concerned that you have something other than a torque limiter problem however, given your hydros still work. Does the Steering work, when the tractor is in gear and the clutch released? ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 2:07pm
| Yes the steering works fine. |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 2:10pm
| I would like to narrow the trouble down as far as possible so the local Tractor shop does not shaft us. They have a reputation of less than stellar repute. But are the only choice for 2-4 hours in all directions. |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 3:29pm
| I'll place my bet on the splines being stripped on the power director clutch hub. You still split it in the same place at the torque limiter. Drain the transmission oil and take the 3/8" bolts out around the front of the transmission. The whole power director will slide out, and I almost bet when you pull the snap ring off the shaft and pull it out you will find pieces of spline from the hub. I think Dr Allis said the 7030/7050 tractors didn't get any lube there when assembled. I've been putting moly paste on the splines of every one I split now. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 4:18pm
| With the engine running, clutch pedal up, can you shift gears without grinding? |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 4:33pm
At $180 an hour you're already getting shafted unless the mechanics make $60+ an hour themselves. Which I doubt.  I'm new to the AC driveline issues as well but from what i have found on the online service manuals exploded views I would agree with the input shaft to power director assy being the next plausible problem. The cable for the High/low gearset shift didn't come apart and let it slide into the neutral position between the two did it?
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Blue Yonder Farm wrote:Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:08pm
Yes it will shift clutch up or down. |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:09pm
How will I check that? |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:14pm
| I found the cable for the High Low gear. That is the one I took an Allen wrench to already. It is fine |
Posted By: Acfarm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:22pm
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Stripped splines in the Power Director hub are very likely, especially if it has never been apart before. Do you have any history on the tractor? We had all the rear differential bolts snap one time on our 7060. Causes same symptoms. That is a longer shot though. ~Warren
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Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:43pm
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Damn,at $180/ hr I'd drive or haul aong ways..no matter what the problem is, or really try an do all I could myself, gotta be someone more reasonable, most shops I know of are $120, an I think they're way to much... Get in touch with JERRY KS he's on here, and at Johnson ks,no longer affiliated with agco, but knows his stuff about AC and can haul to |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 10:18pm
We can haul it about three hours in any direction but that falls short about two hours of getting it to a different shop that will work on AC. The more I can narrow down the problem the smarter I will sound when I go to the shop and the less they will toy with me. I thank you all for the great feedback! Keep it coming please 
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Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 6:27am
| Maybe you could find a neighbor with a big enough shop and pay him some rent, then with the help of these guys here I bet you could fix it yourself. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:16am
| Sure sounds like striped splines in the power director hub to me. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:35am
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I still can't get over $180/hr! Looks to me like a great place to open a shop. Someone's been raping the customers with no competition to keep them in line! The sad part is they don't even sound like they are good! Just ridiculous. I'd much rather sleep nights knowing that I'm as fair in my pricing as practical. I'll never get rich doing what I do, but all my bills get paid. That's good enough for me! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:16am
| If you thought you could take the cab off yourself you can split it. As long as it's flat it's even been done in a rock driveway before although it's not as fun. Just build or buy a set of splitting stands preferably with wheels on them, but can be bolted solid to the frame straight to the floor. Hardest part is unhooking lines and hoses, and having someone help roll the front end away. You can probably find a power director unit to slide back in, but if you feel up to it while it's apart I would reseal it. If you take the torque limiter out while your apart make sure you slip it when you get it together again or it will take your splines out again. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:35am
Can you elaborate on this please? |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 9:20am
| The torque limiter has to be completely centered or else it will eat the splines off between the input shaft and clutch hub. You can have the torque limiter close enough to center to get the tractor slid back together, but by spinning it it will center itself. After its all back together put it in high range in a higher gear and let out on the clutch with you foot on both brakes. It should slip without killing the engine. The service manual explains this. |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 9:59am
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Yes I was reading the Manuel and it does explain how to center the torque limiter. I stopped by the shop and they estimated $4k as the base for replacing the power director hub of that is what is wrong with it. The last IF was with a tone. You all are right about the shop. They have not had any competition for 70 years and there is really no hope of ever getting another shop open here. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:06am
| Proper seating of the torque limiter isn't by releasing the clutch pedal. It is done with the tractor already in motion at full throttle in 2 or 3rd gear high range and then stand hard on the wheel brakes. This is a shock load and will allow the torque limiter disc to slip and center itself. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 11:10am
| Huh! I wonder / hope the mechanic that had mine apart a few years back knew about this. He never said anything to me, so either he did it himself (sorta doubt it) or he didn't know. Did I get extremely lucky? Is it too late to do any good now? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 12:09pm
| If they're not centered, they don't last very long at all. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 12:16pm
| He must have done it then. It's been probably 4 1/2 years, 300 hours. |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 2:11pm
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Sometimes you can be lucky by not doing the centring/slipping procedure on the torque limiter. I've done a couple and have not done it. (I didn't know) I plow and use a deep tillage cultivator, so by putting it in deep and making the tractor pull hard, it can center. I wouldn't worry about it after 4 + years. |
Posted By: 45 turboa-
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 4:06pm
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Man I work way way to cheap and then I feel guilty sometimes ! ------------- turbocharged |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 5:21pm
| Anyone want a two week work vacation to Northern Wyoming? Work in a heated shop on a 7050 AC. Come hunting Mule Deer with us. Help butcher a pig. Work on our tractor. Send home some deer that my family harvests (sorry you can not do the harvesting but can watch us!), hog, maybe a lamb in freezer boxes. Plus rate some cold hard cash in your pocket home.... |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 5:39pm
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Wow! Sounds like a great working vacation! Someone on here might just take you up on that! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: old farmer
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 5:45pm
| Back in the seventies I put a disc in without removing the cab. We took the AC compressor off and left all lines hooked up, we put all AC components on the steps. If you have front weights, take them off, you will not be happy if you don't. |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 5:52pm
When do you need it done? ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Blue Yonder Farm
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:16pm
| I will talk with the Banker Spouse |
Posted By: Acfarm
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 9:31pm
Always good to consult with the bank first  Man! A heated shop........ that makes it almost too easy! Wish mine was.....would have made all my splitting experiences a LOT more plesant. I would totally be down for helping if only my Scheduler Spouse would allow it  ~Warren
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 11:17pm
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Don't know how a 7000 series compares but I had to pull the tranny out of my 8070 and supported the front of cab with lengths of 1 1/2 pipe with 1in redi-rod and some nuts and washers to make a crude screw adjustable "jack".The A/C stuff was unbolted and tied/laid in cab.When I split it later to fix the leaking rear main I don't remember having to do anything to the cab.Maybe they are made different? I don't remember if the book gave guidance on removing the PD but it is HEAVY!!!!! and back in a hole so theres no good way to get hold it.I had access to a truck transmission jack(heavy) and made a bracket on it to pull/install the PD. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 2:20pm
| I've pulled dozens of them out over the years.....by hand. Have a bench very close by to lay it down on. Probably 150 lbs ?? |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 8:24pm
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I had a 7030, stopprd to adjust disc, back in tractor and would not move. Had splines gone off a shaft but don, tremember which one. Had it apart a couple times for power directer work and the shaft and never removed the cab, local dealer did it and did several that way. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |