7060 performance parts
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128794
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 3:04am
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Topic: 7060 performance parts
Posted By: mbachmojave
Subject: 7060 performance parts
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 10:43am
| Does anyone out there have any performance parts, for sale, or advise on pulling with a 7060 power director tractor. Just started pulling this year, tractor is holding together and seems to be doing well. I am around 100 hp over stock now, hoping with some pump work, bigger injectors, and lines to be at the 300 -350 hp range for next year. Thanks, Mike |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 12:20pm
| If you haven't tied down your torque limiter yet, you need to do that first. If you still intend on farming with it, I'd have a pulling pump and pulling injectors to swap out for the Summer Pulling season. I've never swapped any injector lines. Turbocharger needs to be improved, and a 3LM466 Schweitzer would work for pulling and farming. There are better ones out there than a 3LM also. Windshield washer fluid injected into the airstream ahead of the turbocharger is good for 50-60 HP and pretty easy to install and remove after season. If the tractor is to be a dedicated Puller, then that changes things. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 3:51pm
| thanks for the reply, I do not need to use it to farm anymore, I work at a diesel repair shop, the guys in the pump shop rebuilt pump last winter, turned it up as much as they could while still on the engine, I can pull it this winter, I guess they can do some internal upgrades yet, have new injector nozzle's, was also planning on sending out to be machined bigger as well, I did install a new 3lm turbo, the turbo moves air, and keeps the exhaust very clean, how ever, I do run out of fuel to keep it spooled at the end of a run. The tractor was in at an old Allis dealer for much of the winter, it had new torque limiter clutch installed with the heaviest disc, and double spring pressure plate, also had the entire power director looked over resealed, and repaired as needed, as well as the power director valve body resealed. the tractor worked well in the field, and seemed to be good on the track, I have been able to launch in 3rd high, and shift power director both ways with out slippage. So with what I have told you, in your opinion with a little more power, will I need to do any more drive line upgrades, or may it be ok for this year? I have located a power director assembly out of a 7580, thinking about picking it up now, and saving it until needed. Any thoughts? thanks, mike |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:39pm
| 7080/7580/N6 injection pump is better than your 7060 pump by far. Double sprung torque limiter should hold 300 HP pretty easy, I would think. Injectors need to be 4 hole X .020" minimum set to 2500 to 2800 psi. |
Posted By: Gary(WI)
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 4:18pm
| I have a core pump for you with the 3.1 head if interested. $200 9two0 25three 8192 |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 11:32am
| thanks for the info, I have learned that it may be possible to take a power director from a 7060, put a different piston in it, and be able to fit one more disc and plate in. Can anyone confirm that is possible? thanks Mike |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:23pm
| A 7030/7040 clutch has 3 discs in low range. A 7045/7050/7060 has 4 discs in low range. Change the clutch piston on a 7030/7040 and add an extra disc. You already have a 7060, so you are at 4 discs in LOW RANGE. High range has two discs in ALL models except late 7080/7580, which can have 5 in low and 3 in high, and low range separator plates are thicker to withstand more heat before warping. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:39pm
| Ah right right right, that makes sense. So could a guy fit the thicker plates in the clutch packs on this 7060 would you think? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 2:34pm
| Some machining would have to happen to stuff the thicker plates in low range. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 3:13pm
| ok but it is possible, and perhaps has been done before? Is there any chance or way to do enough machining of the 7060 clutch housing or piston to fit another disc and plate inside that one? I am considering buying a second tractor for parts basically and am wondering if I would then have a spare director that could be built up. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 4:31pm
| Your best Power Director clutch would be from a very late 7080 or 7580. Get the whole clutch and both drive hubs. I would consider adding the thicker plates in HIGH side to that clutch. Disc count is 5 low and 3 high. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 4:50pm
| Ok I am looking at a second 7060, I was curious if anyone had figured out a way of getting the 5th disc on that assembly, of if there is no chance of that, lots of other usable parts on this tractor for me. To buy and haul a 7580 from god knows where, may be a real head ache. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 6:21pm
| Well, I know of one local Puller who bought the whole P.D. clutch from a salvage 7580, so they are out there. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:54am
| Yes you are correct, I have a line on a director from a 7580, it is still in the tractor, but at the best price, and shipping it still would cost more then this entire running operating tractor I found, so that's a tough one to swallow you know. |
Posted By: BKarpel
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 9:34am
| Can you take out the power direct and install a gear box in its place? You would have to redo the clutch and get it to all line up. I think the gutless general AC 7030 did this. I know he's running a 7000 series rear end. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 4:39pm
| Hmm not sure about that, at least in this 7000 series chassis the power director is your only way to disengage the engine, so not sure how you would make that work, I thought about that as well, if you could make a coupling for the power director assembly, and made yourself a throw out of some kind, and use the torque limiter as the clutch of the tractor...... Any ideas? |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 7:54am
| I did purchase a second 7060 tractor thinking I will take the director out of that and see what can be done to either fit the thicker steel plates in, or maybe come up with something else. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 1:25pm
| Does anyone have any information about making a "dual disc" torque limiter? Or is there need for concern of breaking the center drive hub of the torque limiting clutch? thanks Mike |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 1:40pm
| Existing hub isn't going to be a problem. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 4:56pm
| Hmm so the upgraded disc with 6 pads is plenty strong? The only reason I ask is, the stock torque limiting clutch disc I had, exploded while running on the dyno and shattered the center of the disc. Not sure of condition, or if installed correctly, that was right when I purchased tractor. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 7:32pm
| Any time a torque limiter is assembled, it must be centered ASAP. To center the disc, the engine has to be full throttle, transmission in a gear of 10 MPH or more, and brakes applied forcefully, trying to kill the engine. At some point before engine stall, the torque limiter will slip, immediately centering the disc to the flywheels center. Sounds like whomever did the install didn't do that. If the limiter was double-sprung, it becomes even more important to do this. Depending on the actual size of the pads, 6 pads will actually hold less torque than 4 pads when they are under the same assembled pressure. If you are serious about making high HP, you probably need to have a drive disc built for this job. Bolts up to the flywheel already centered. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 9:01pm
| Hmm that's very good info to have, so if you put some "stop" bolts in the flywheel, how would you be able to center the clutch disc? Or where would you be able to get this drive disc? One person I have talked to, keeps advising me to put a second disc in and turn it into a dual disc, they seem to keep saying that some of the pullers are doing that, and you want there to be some slippage there. I'm not sure if I will have issues with the torque limiter slipping next season or not. Im not quite sure just how much more power I will be putting out after some upgrades this winter, but I am attempting to get a handle on just how far I may need to go to get the power to the ground. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 10:14pm
| You need to go back to this guy and get your twin-disc information. I've never done it like that. I'm sure a Company called High-Capacity can make you a bolt in drive disc. For your twin-disc drive, custom parts will have to be made for it as well. The clutch input shaft is only so long and if you're going to have two narrow hubs on it, those parts will have to be made. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 7:59am
| So if you got yourself some kind of a bolt in drive hub, you would have to get the flywheel machined correctly so it would be aligned when it is installed? I am assuming that the input shaft to the power director does not have any kind of pilot on the shaft, and that is why you have to align it with a stall load? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 8:16am
| If you look at the flywheel, it has a way of centering a bolt on drive disc. There is a machined step and 6 half-inch bolts to attach it to. Should be no problem for a builder to attach a springless drive hub to a disc. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 9:59am
| Ahh I see, so they use the machined area of the flywheel where the flywheel bolts to the crank, so is that drive disc bolted right to the flywheel? and the pressure plate is no longer used? Or is it just a rigid center on a disc, and the other parts of the limiter are still used? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 1:40pm
| All limiter parts are scrapped. Use existing holes in the flywheel to mount the new drive disc with hub. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 2:30pm
| Ok that gives me plenty to think about, what are your thoughts on the engine? I have a good running engine everything works as it should, I believe it to be original, I ran it with fuel pump turned up and upgraded turbo, now have upgraded entire fuel system, turbo should be plenty big, what else do I need to do to hopefully keep it together for next year with out a total overhaul? Rod bolts and bearings, heavier valve springs, and crossed fingers? thanks |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 4:21pm
| Unless you're going to run over 3,000 RPM all the time, stock valve springs are fine. You will probably fail a head gasket at some point when you get much over 40 pounds of boost. |
Posted By: 7040
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 10:05pm
| While you're doing rod bolts you schould consider having rods hardened. Also pull sleaves and have grooved for fire rings. The head gasket will fail if you don't |
Posted By: Joe(IA)
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 6:27am
| We pulled 7060's for years in late 70s and 80s and did real well. Dr Allis has given you very good advice. We had laser tips, dedicated pulling pump and turbo. We also used 7080 injector lines(bigger), electric fuel pump and ran water to cool the turbo. Dealer also addressed torque limiter nothing like what you are considering. Dynoed tractor and was 300 plus. Keep in mind hp isn't everything. Proper weighting of tractor, tires and pressure and shifting tractor at the right time are maybe more important than hp. We stayed on the low side of power director because of the torque limiter. We pulled 15k class in 5th gear and 18k in fourth. Our speed was faster than most. Ran 20.8 BF goodrich radials and these tires were the answer. We would consistently beat bosch deeres and cases. Only tractor couldn't beat was a 6030 deere! We farmed many years with this tractor also. Mainly pulled in iowa and minnesota. Have fun! |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 7:56am
| Hoping not to get that high on boost just yet, should have the pump governed below 3000, I plan on building a stronger engine, just hoping to run this one that way it is for the next year if I can. So wondering if I should put a little time and effort into keeping this one together for the next season..... |
Posted By: ACman75
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 9:13am
| You could just go with a new agco head gasket and drop on fire rings. We've pulled this season with our 210 with roughly 450 hps and making about 50lbs of boost with no issues. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 10:06am
|
I now have a bullet proof head gasket in stock for the 426, to go along with the fire rings. It's not much higher priced than the AGCO gasket. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2016 at 5:29pm
| Hey guys thanks for the reply's everyone is giving me good advise and ideas of where to go with this project. Just got back from picking up a second 7060 mainly for parts, but makes me feel much better to see the engine runs alright on this one, give me lots to think about and ability to tear the parts tractor apart and figure something's out. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 7:28pm
| Does anyone know off the top of your head, can a guy put a 20.8 38 tire onto a rim that is meant for a 18.4 38? thanks |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 7:47pm
| Sure, it will go right on, but if you want it to work, you'll widen out the rim at least 2 inches if not 4 inches. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 8:05pm
| What do you mean by widen out the rim? Move it out on the axle? Or cut the rim and add material? |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 8:35am
| Does anyone know where I can get a set of fuel injection lines, off a 7080, with stanadyne fuel system? |
Posted By: Dans 7080
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 9:14am
|
Cut the rim and add material. ------------- When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 10:19am
| Ahh right... we were thinking of welding the center out of a bolt on rim onto the center of a set to duals I have that are the correct width. |
Posted By: 7040
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 7:51pm
| You could probably buy new oversized fuel line from Ed the price isn't that bad |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 10:47am
| People keep talking about breaking the cast flywheel, how likely is that to happen, staying at 3000 rpm? Or where could you find a steel flywheel, for 7060, 426 engine? thanks |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 11:16am
| You are not using your flywheel as the regular clutch surface. If you follow thru with your plans, there will be a drive disc bolted to the flywheel. 3000 RPM's is a number Insurance Companies have dictated as safe for most Pulling Clubs I'm associated with. Your flywheel isn't going to explode the way you are going to use it. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 11:41am
| Ah ok, so basically, if you had a real heavy pressure plate on it, and you were putting all the force between the clutch disc and flywheel, that is where the extra stress comes from.. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 12:31pm
|
No, the heat generated from slipping the clutch is what leads to explosions along with the rpm. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 3:21pm
| Ah ok, make sense thanks for the input, one less thing I have to worry about... |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 6:34am
|
I caught a video of a 1206 on YouTube exploding a flywheel. The first attempt shows just how that fellow abuses his tractor. When he had chosen toooo high of a gear he really put some heat into the clutch. then after trying again in a lower gear he got out of the hole, made a pull, then the flywheel exploded, cutting the tractor in two. It's not so much the RPMs as the heat involved. Most muscle cars of the later 60s had grey iron flywheels and would turn near 6K RPM from the factory. But when you factor in the heat that starting a load at near tp RPM with a turbocharged engine, that will cause the cast to crack. Try welding a cast iron moldboard and watch it fall apart when it cools. Welding cast is nearly a lost art. Even though you won't be stressing the flywheel as you plan to use your 7060 it might be a good idea to have "tie bars" to connect the front frame with the rear end housing.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 9:29am
| Ok thanks for the advise, that movie is scary. wonder why it took off after he stopped. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:55am
In that video, about 100 feet out you can hear it start missing, that is when a plunger in the pump stuck, so when it almost died at the end, he clutched it and it ran away and blew the already hot flywheel to bits. The flag man should have never let him go the way he was slipping that clutch! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
PaulB wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 11:55pm
| Ed,give a tutorial on the "stuck plunger".There may be those who don't know what that's all about. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 7:52am
|
An inline pump like was on the 1206 in that video, and used by many, many pulling tractors, have a plunger & barrel assembly for each cylinder it's feeding. They always go up and down the same distance by a camshaft, and roller lifters. They are all connected to a common "rack" which is controlled by the governor to rotate the plungers back and forth which is how the fuel delivery is regulated by an angle cut on the plungers.(Helix). So, now when one plunger sticks in it's barrel, they are all held in that position of rotation, so you can no longer control the delivery. You will have the remaining cylinders pumping, and in this case was a lot of fuel. This is why diesel pulling tractors have an air shut-off, as well as fuel flow shut-off valves. Clear as mud? ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2016 at 6:43pm
| Does anyone have any advise, or do's and don'ts for welding a bolt in center on a 38" rim? Have some 38 x 16 rims with bolt in center with roughly 6" offset, going to weld them into spare dual rims I have 38x 18" the dual rims have wedge locks in them and dual clamping ring...... anyone see issues with doing this? thanks |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 5:41pm
| 7060 appears that both second gear, and the high range gear are seized onto their shafts, anyone have any Idea what may have happened? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 12:00pm
| I've seen the high and low range shafts seize together. That was far more common than I'd like to think. I always blamed it on oil leaks underneath and no one ever checking transmission oil levels......too difficult to pull the dipstick in the cab and check it. Never seen "second" gear seize on the mainshaft of the transmission. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2016 at 12:38pm
| Yea i purchased a second tractor for the good running engine, power director, things like that to build up for my pulling tractor, but also much easier to learn and understand how things work if you can look and touch. the tractor would drive forwards only, shifter and forks all in good shape, with shift tower removed, you could move the shift sleeves however 2nd gear would not move on the shaft, and could not be engaged, if you shifted into any other gear it would lock the entire transmission up,with engine running you could see oil being pumped and coming out between gears... same with the high-low, I looked closer and it is actually the low range gear stuck on the shaft, unless you were in neutral or low range it would also bind up. I did remove the transmission housing from rear differential housing last night, and everything was full of fluid at this point, but you may be very right, about leaking out before.....fluid in rear diff area was very clean, oil in transmission area, milky, but at level, fluid in range area also at level but dirty, the screen that was mounted to pump inside lower diff housing had lots of debris in it. |
Posted By: mbachmojave
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 6:54pm
| Does anyone have any good advise when it comes to rear tire rims? I currently am setting my 7060 up with 9 bolt rears, I have very heavy set of u-bolt style axle hubs and plan to use standard 9 bolt center plate in an 18" rim. Any input about this, or thought about going to weld on 10 bolt? |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 8:37am
|
So, did you have a plate made to bolt to the flywheel? I really like that idea, but lots have used bolts through the clutch disc to act as a drive lug. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |