Hd5 loader engine swap ?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128768
Printed Date: 18 Aug 2024 at 1:15am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hd5 loader engine swap ?
Posted By: sdees
Subject: Hd5 loader engine swap ?
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 8:58pm
New guy here. A little backstory, I picked up an old hd5 tracto shovel loader model a while back. I got it running and repaired the cracked head(freeze). The water pump was missing so I installed an inline electric and electric fan. All was running decent using it in my crawfish pond cleanup project. It seems to be slightly underpowered but I have nothing to compare to. Today something in the engine let go at 3/4 throttle. I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have most every mechanic and welding tool you can ask for. I will take it down this weekend to find the problem. In the meantime I am very interested in swapping in a 3-71 anyway for the power gain. I've been lurking and reading here since I got the machine. I saw mention and searched but can't find much information. Any help and pointing at swaps done would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance , Scott
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Replies:
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 7:14am
I had an HD5G years ago. It was capable of digging and lifting a full bucket load working in hard clay soil. With the cast iron counter weight I could tip the machine on its nose if I had too many rocks in the bucket. I think the 2-71 Detroit has enough power for the chassis. The difficulty I had was with balance. A heavier (longer) motor in the front would make the balance worse. There are 2-71's on eBay
I put traditional grousers on my HD5G that made the machine seem more powerful while working.
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Posted By: sdees
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 10:35am
Thanks for the reply. That's definitely food for thought. Maybe mine wasn't running to full potential. I couldn't find anyone in south Louisiana that had experience with on to compare.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:08am
the 3-71 conversion into the HD5-A or HD5-B was more common as going from 48 HP to 70 HP for field work made larger attachments work . Unsure what needed to be changed to shoehorn the 3-71 into frame - extending front or moving back into space . On the 5G the loader brackets would limit movement as would the hardnose and clearance to loader framework . As a 1yd machine the 2-71 seems to work good , yes more power could be used but over last 40 years of use the 5G had dug many basements , loaded many trucks and put in many roads and driveways . Have a extra 2-71 core engine I got with a machine years back but do not know what is wrong or how good parts are in it . On rear of my 5G there are 2 sets of counterweights (thick/thin) and in most cases it balances well - backing up hill or ramp with a loaded bucket - yet it gets a little tippy but many machines do in reverse. CARRY LOADS LOW at all times -
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:14am
the rear section of the HD6 is the same as HD5 so most except engine is the same in the power to ground - track - sprocket - rollers- idlers - but loader frame updated along with bigger engine .
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: sdees
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 1:47pm
Thanks coke. I see your post a lot and thank you for all the knowledge. I also have access to 3-53 which is same width, 1 inch longer, and is shorter. Your opinion , rebuild the 2-71 or look at transplant?
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 2:48pm
You would go from 142 cubs to 159, not much increase, probably a bit smoother running, thinking the torque is about the same. Did Detroit use the same rods in 53's as 71"s or where they shorter?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 9:27am
Seems staying with the 71 series would mean parts are easier to obtain as they interchange across the full line of parts .
Last rebuild my pistons and liners are from truck engine rather than industrial - so ports in sleeve are full length and not just the drilled hole look
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 11:38am
Our HD-5 has the 3-71 Detroit installed. These tractors were done by Sweeney Brothers Tractor Co in North Dakota & Minnesota for drawbar work. I have seen two others beside ours. The 3-71 is taller than the 2-71 so they added material to bring the engine enclosure up probably 8 inches. The engine pushes the radiator forward as well. Headlights have to go to accommodate it. All that aside, in talking to the farmer that had one that I tried to buy, the 3-71 made a farm tractor at that time out of the HD-5. Fitting it into a loader tractor may be another story, however.
------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, 655 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225.
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Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 4:49pm
I think loader frame would have to be extended to put a longer engine in. Just rebuild 2-71 with the higher performance parts as well as larger injectors.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 8:32pm
Seems the HD5G I had would out push the HD5B with the 9' blade - could move dirt faster with the G . As far as power a 1 yard machines only moves so much material no matter what the HP as the gearing and track only allows so much power before the track slips or machine stalls. Now my FD5 - F/A dozer at 70+ HP and a 7' - 6 way blade well that works a lot faster than either - but again power shift vs straight gear makes a difference also . The HD4 I had with torque converted and shuttle fwd/rev and 3/4 yd bucket was faster than the HD5G in some jobs but the 5G put more power to the ground for heavy work.
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 10:21pm
Man that is a good looking picture of a 5!
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Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 11:06pm
Re build the two banger. One of the reasons we are still talking about tractors built in the late 40"s early 50's is that they were a little under powered. Heavy structural deflection was not an issue. Smashing the tranny and under carriage was not a huge issue. But good operators could do a LOT with the one yard bucket. My Dad dug many, many basements, cleaned corrals, buried horses, loaded thousands of yards of gravel/sand, pushed snow, dug dugouts etc. etc., mostly for free as a good neighbor. He is 85 now and says that he occasionally has a dream where he wakes up with his feet up in the air as he has been running the "cat" in his sleep ! They are one of the all time greats, yours looks good, JMHO, Trev.
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Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 12:27am
my HD5 track loader had a 3-71 in it. bought it that way. it had plenty of power, and did everything I wanted/needed it to do! wish I had never sold it....but I was done with what I needed to do!
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Posted By: Eric B
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 5:15pm
As mentioned... put in slightly bigger injectors but checking the timing is also important. Depending on the mechanic that last did it...I had one Detroit with timing set according to the book and it was pretty lame I thought. Advancing a little can put the snap back in that you're looking for (even a valve adjustment can make a difference). If the compression is low you still need new kits to get back what has been lost. The 53 series rods are shorter as that is a higher revving engine originally designed for boats. Governed RPM usually 2800 where the 71 series is around 2150. Of the two I like the 71 series better.
------------- Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 8:31pm
HV 7 injectors are used in the HD5 / 2-71 engine - as they are set with a plug gauge into injector body - to set the height of the injection piston to rocker action - Can up the RPM some on governor and gain a little power also .
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Eric B
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 12:15pm
Coke-in-MN wrote:
HV 7 injectors are used in the HD5 / 2-71 engine - as they are set with a plug gauge into injector body - to set the height of the injection piston to rocker action - Can up the RPM some on governor and gain a little power also . |
Coke: Which timing pin (measurement) do you generally use for the 2-71's?
------------- Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Posted By: sdees
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 5:57pm
Pulled the engine and main clutch today to bring it home and see what's causing my problems.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 8:53pm
Not everyone has the ability to "feel" the timing dimension. If it isn't right it will be a dog.
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Posted By: sdees
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 12:52pm
Thanks for all the help so for. I have found a 2-71 from a welding machine. What all parts would I need to swap ove for the hd5?
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Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 3:54pm
you may have to change the bell housing and flywheel, governor linkage to match the loader but everything else should be the same. I had one from a stationary engine, not sure what it ran, sold it and it went right into a loader. good luck,
------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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