NEW PROJECT: D14
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126150
Printed Date: 02 Jun 2025 at 3:48pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: NEW PROJECT: D14
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Subject: NEW PROJECT: D14
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 6:11pm
Hello, I purchased this D14 today. Not sure of the year yet, I am still working on getting it out of the barn and on to the trailer. Tires were flat, pumped them up and are holding air well enough to get onto a trailer. The two back tires are leaking at the valve stems. Took carb off and did a quick clean, drained gas, put new gas in. The battery they had in it was a 12 volt with negative to ground. I put a 12 volt marine battery in and just get a click when I try to start it. Lights are bright. The one gauge reads 15 amps. Just by looking at the generator, I am thinking this is suppose to be a 6 volt positive ground system. How would I check for 6 volt rather than 12? Dosen't 6 have more cranking amps? |
Replies:
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 6:25pm
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Sorry, these are all upside down. This is what the tractor had when I found it.  (12 volt battery, negative ground)  (solenoid? (on left side of starter as sitting on tractor)) (generator?)  (black cylinder, a coil?) |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 7:23pm
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Ok... first, pictures... you need to find the 'option' on your 'smart device' to 'lock orientation', that way pictures will be right side up. second, wiring. Do yourself a BIG favour and get rid of 100% of what's there! You've got 50-60 year old wiring and NONE of it will be any good. You'll waste a LOT of time trying this and that,testing here and there, and well, the gremlins WILL win. For 'testing' you really only need NEW starter cables and a wire to the ignition, and another to the starter solenoid. If you're not comfortable with wiring, buy a kit from Steve at B&B on this site, though I've redone 3 out of 4 of my D-14s and they run just fine.. 3rd. if it hasn't run for awhile, you'll probably need to clean the points as they get corroded over time. Maybe replace all 4 spark plugs. Firing order is 1243 with #1 being closest to the rad. ask anything, guys here are very, very smart ! Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 7:28pm
| Thanks for the info. Do you think it is a 6 or 12 volt system? How would I check? |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 7:31pm
| That's wierd. Photos look fine on computer but when I posted, the pics were upside down. I think I have the issue fixed now. Had to reset the exif parameters. |
Posted By: JayD-17(NY)
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 7:59pm
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Well, if you put a 12V in it and turned the lights on and the lights or the fuse didn't blow, then it's probably now a 12 system. They did leave the factory as a 6V positive ground system, at least the very first ones did, not sure about toward the end. If it's only clicking, then the starter solenoid maybe shot, or by the looks of it, the wires going to it look pretty crusty. The coil may have a 6v or 12v marked on it somewhere if you can get it cleaned up enough to read it. The Genny, if it still has a tag, you can take the model # and Google it on- line.
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Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2016 at 8:57pm
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The early D14 was 6 volt and the later ones were 12 volt. Check your serial # to determine the age of your tractor. LOL Bob ------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S, |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 2:36am
| I will replace all wiring eventually. Can I run a wire directly from battery to starter just to see if it would turn over? Maybe get it started to drive on trailer which would be way easier than pushing. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 3:27am
| The generator and negative ground has me confused. These where positive ground new. It could have been switched to negative ground but typically that is part of a alternator upgrade. Makes me wonder if someone just didn't know and put a battery in backwards. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 5:46am
| I was thinking that. But when I put the 12 in the lights worked. I will try again with battery in opposite position. (positive ground). Anything bad that can happen? |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 5:58am
with 12 volt battery connected with negative ground, key in run position, tractor not running, cant remember if lights were on (makes sense that they were). This picture shows the gauge readings. It is reading 9 amps to the discharge side. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:02am
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OK.. 1 picturesa re still upside down on my PC... starter. IF there's a metal band around the end away from the engine, odds are real good it's a 6 volt starter. NO band ,it's a 12 volt unit. I have 3 with band..all 6 volt,other is 12V. Honestly ,get rid of the wiring.Spend $20 and get new battery cables and properly install them. That way you can safely use the starter solenoid to turn over the engine without major sparks.emember ther's a gas tank on top of the starter !! By getting rid of the wiring the generator is just a 'pulley' for the fan belt,so you can hurt it and it can't hurt you or fry up the 60 year old wires( which you've gotten rid of). I know I sound anal about the wiring but age, mice, corrorsion will play havoc with wires.Either no power goes through or gets shorted to the wrong place and 'nothing happens', except you've wasted 4-5 hours of your life. You NEED new wires anyway,so just buy the starter cables.If it spins then you know the solenoid is good as well as the key switch. Pull the spark plugs and see what they look like. If all 4 are 'tan' coloured great, any 'oily' ones aren't so great. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:07am
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http://uploads/351/d14wiring2.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://uploads/351/d14wiring2.jpg oops... serverdon't like me... can't show d-14 wiring for some reason....sigh... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:18am
Thanks Jay. I got the wiring diagram. Here is a picture of the starter. I do not see a band. I took the photos with my phone, sent them to my computer. They look fine on the computer but then turn upside down on the forum. I will try to fix as Jay mentioned in an earlier post. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:29am
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I'd say that's a 12 volt starter, sure is sad to see that much rust on the tractor though ! OK, on the bottom of the bell housing there's a 3" hole plug. Pop it off, shine a light in there, see how big a 'mouse house' you have. Normally you should just see clutch parts but mice LOVE that area. If it's full, you'll have to remove starter as it's be jammed with mosue house materials. Mine was so jammed starter would NOT spin over! ah the fun begins..... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:02am
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HVFDFIREFIGHTER wrote:Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:02am
If in fact this is a 12 volt system, I'm assuming this is still a 6 volt generator. It would still charge, just not as quick correct? I notice there is no cutout (silver rectangular box) on the generator like my WD has. This one has just two posts. Left photo is from D14, right photo is from WD showing the cutout relay  |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:14am
| Any D-14 has a voltage regulator, not a cut-out. It's right there behind your starter. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:22am
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So this is the voltage regulator. Wire on top, wire on bottom, and wire on side. It is attached to left side of genny, kinda behind the gas bowl. The wire on the bottom looks kinda frayed in this photo. Once I get her home I will be replacing all of the wiring as Jay mentioned. Currently out in a barn with no electricity. The tractor was stored for years under a roof but open to the weather. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:31am
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no, that's the starter solenoid, with really, really bad wires on it ! The little wire gets 12v from the ignition switch, in the start position which then allows full battery power to go to the starter. when you get her home, come on back.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: JayD-17(NY)
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:35am
......um, no thats the solenoid you have pictured there.....voltage regulator is the square black box looking thing.
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Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:42am
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A big help for these and other AC tractors is the on-line AGCO Parts Book http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx You can browse without having to register; just use "guest" Type in D14 and follow link. Click on ELECTRICAL & INSTRUMENTS - WIRING & BATTERY in the left column. Item 31 is the Voltage Regulator on that page (104) You can zoom in/out and define an area to zoom into by using the cursor. Save the link for future reference. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:49am
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I'm just coming on to this, but that is your Starter relay that kicks the Starter motor in. It looks to me as the cable running to it is partically severed or just about rotted off. That will never start with the cable that way. The thing I would do first is see if the engine turns over by hand. If it doesn't, throwing cables and parts at it to get it fired up will be a waste of time if the engine is stuck. The second thing I would do is check the serial number of the Tractor to ID whether it was originally 6V or a later 12V version. Looking at the pic of the Battery, that Battery is a 12V maintenance free version. Doesn't mean its correct. Looking at the Generator chassis, it could be a 6V or 12V with or without a band. Some 6V versions were closed chassis units also. If the engine turns over by hand then I would go with what Jay mentioned with cables, but you have a LOT of cleaning to do at all the connections to even make an attempt to start it. Personally, I think you would be better off getting some help to get it out of where its at onto the trailer and getting it home in your barn or garage to take your time and tear it down to get it in some sort of shape to try to fire it providing as I said that the engine isn't stuck from sitting. HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:00am
| How would I turn by hand? It does not have a hand crank. I can turn the genny and the fan. |
Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:17am
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I wouldn't try to start it with the battery & starter....until you're sure it isn't stuck. Make sure ignition is OFF and remove plugs for these suggestions If you push the fan-belt tighter into the pulleys, then pull on one of the fan blades, it may turn over. Watch so you don't scrape some skin off. You could put it in 4th HI, then rock one of the rear tires fwd & back. If it isn't stuck, that will turn the engine a little. But, as Steve suggested. get it onto the trailer and home so you can work on it. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:22am
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pull the plugs put PTO lever in gear carefully put pipe wrench on PTO shaft and turn that should spin engine Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:49am
| Question: the power director shifter (lever on right side of tractor close to gear shift) in forward position, is that hi or low range? On the left side of tractor near the clutch peddle there is another lever, what is that? PTO shifter? |
Posted By: JeffMOnt
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 10:07am
| Forward is high, middle is neutral, and back is low. |
Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 10:11am
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the PD is on the right as you say. HI range is forward (which is actually direct input) LO is rearward (reduced input) In between is Neutral, but do NOT use for shifting transmission when engine is running....use foot clutch only for that. The lever to the left is the PTO engagement. Must use foot clutch to engage. Foot clutch should also be used to disengage the PTO, but sometimes with little to no load, it can be disengaged by simple moving the lever by hand. This lever is what you'd use to engage the PTO to do what jaymiller suggests. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 2:43pm
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I got her home today! Took plugs out, put PTO in gear, put my pipe wrench on, it would't turn by hand. Stepped on it and it turned about 1/4 turn. Now cant get it to move. Which way should it turn? As I am looking at the back of the tractor, clockwise or counterclockwise. I turned counterclockwise. I did not try it in fourth gear yet. The spark plugs did not look good. Not rusty but oily and black.  |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 2:47pm
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Also found this broken wire running from top of engine to a gauge (cant read the gauge) What is this device with wire on top of the engine called? Also noticed the ammeter is stuck of 9 amps even with no battery.  |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 3:39pm
| Could other parts seize or is it most likely the engine? I'm thinking I should pull the head and soak with PB Blaster for a few days or maybe just dump it directly in the spark plug holes. What do you guys recommend? |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 5:59pm
| I took plugs out, put in fourth gear and could push a little. I heard some grinding noises near the starter. I took out the cone shaped bolt holding the starter in, slid starter out, pushed tractor in 4th gear and was able to push the tractor with no noise AND I noticed the PTO turning as well. I connected battery with starter half way out, turned key and just hear a click. I will be replacing wires tomorrow. I thinking 12 gauge stranded wire for everything should be fine except for the battery cables. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:01pm
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What is this orange bar under the starter. It is only connected on one side. It was a knuckle buster when removing starter.  |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:30pm
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That the lever that engages the side PTO Belt pulley if you had one. The little hole would be connected to a lever/knob in the lower right of the dash. NONE of my foursome have the pulley.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: cottonpatch
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:32pm
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Starter probably needs rebuilding, may need a new solenoid as well.
------------- '52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040 |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:40pm
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I got one of those pullie here don't know if I will ever install it again or not but it seemed like one of those things to save at the time... I would just use diesel fuel and some ATF in the cylinders pour it does the plug holes and let it sit for a few days maybe a week it will help clean up the cylinders even if it isn't stuck. Pb blasters is expensive and diesel fuel works about as well. I would get a quote from Steve in NJ for the wiring harnis. You could do it all point to point but I think getting a kit from steve and do an electronic ignition while you are at it would be money well spent in the long run. You want to be very careful about cranking the motor with the starter or rolling it with the tires you can easily bend push rods if the valves are stuck pulling on the fan is about all I would do. There has also been discussion on here about setting up a lever holding a cement block to keep pressure on the motor while the cleaner works on the rust I don't remember the details of that setup. Some searching for freeing up stuck motors in here would probably find it. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:05pm
| if that lever controls the side pulley, what are the chances the pulley would be the same size as the one on a WD? I have one for my WD but can't use it because the arms for the bucket get in the way. All I need is the cork gaskets |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 8:34pm
| Pulley won't interchange, except with a D-15. WD uses a different pulley. The braided wire covered thingy on top of the back of the head is the bulb for the temp gauge. the bulb, wire, and gauge are 1 unit, can be replaced with a universal type, or a repro unit... |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:37pm
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Do yourself a favor and get an owner's manual. It will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about the tractor.
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 1:05pm
Starter gear in tractor, little wear, don't think bad enough to replace. What do all of you think? I know, DO IT RIGHT AND REPLACE IT! I don't have any way to split the tractor myself. I cant even begin to imagine how much that would cost for someone else to do it.  Starter gear in starter, worn pretty bad, needs to be replaced.  |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 2:15pm
Most likely all you'll need is a new gear on the starter itself but until you can free the engine I would not do much to this tractor. You may get into a money pit before you know the condition of the most expensive part, being the engine. Now if you are going to fix the tractor no matter what then by all means full throttle ahead.  ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:33pm
Switching from Pos to Neg ground is very simple to do with a generator. The generator doesn't care which way it is as long as you polarize it after connecting the battery cables the way you want them. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:42pm
Temperature gauge. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 5:53pm
I do believe (hope) the engine is not currently seized  . With starter out, PTO in gear, and tractor in 4th gear, I can push it forward and backward (with a good bit of effort). The PTO does turn when pushing tractor. I think I will still take the valve cover off and make sure all cylinders and valves are moving. Judging from the plugs, I am sure its pretty cruddy in there. Today, I replaced all wires, connectors, and solder them. The only wiring left to do is the back light (wasn't sure how to run the wire) and the horn (Not sure where to connect those wires).Thanks for all the help so far. Hopefully the local shop will be open tomorrow and I can take the starter in.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 5:59pm
| Check the front pullie on the genorator before you take the starter in if the front pullie bearings are shot the genorator will need to be rebuilt or replace with an alt. I think an alternator is cheaper I rebuilt one genorator and converted one alt to positive ground for my d15 neither was cheap but I wanted to keep positive ground because I have lived with it on my d17 all my life. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 6:04pm
| Pulley on generator. seems good, it turns and does not have any wobble. Not sure if it works as the tractor is not running. The shop I am taking the starter to tomorrow rebuilt my generator on my WD a few years ago. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 11:44am
| What is the best shop manual to get for the D14? IT? I saw one with about 12 different models in it. Are there any free PDFs? |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 11:58am
| Get the allis chalmers service manual you can order it from agco publications online. You can also find the parts manual at agco parts.com the it manual is not worth having the allis chalmers service manuals are much better. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:36pm
Well, I had a chance to get out to the garage. Put tractor in gear, pushed a little and low and behold the fan turns!!. Found the serial number, it is 22376 The number on the engine block is 149-23123R Also found this on right side of engine block upside down J13J.   |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2016 at 6:28pm
| Makes it an early 1960 model year tractor. Engine s/n of 23123 and tractor s/n of 22376 means there were 747 engines built for G-149 power units. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:05pm
| Just got a call from the shop, my starter is done. He mentioned it is 12 volt and has nine teeth on the gear. What ring gear should I go with? The parts book says 93 teeth for 6 volt and 116 teeth for 12 volt. I think jaybmiller mentioned the gear in the starter should have ten teeth. Mine has 9. I'm not sure of the number of teeth the current ring gear has as I have not taken tractor apart yet. Guess it really dosen't matter, I need to make sure ring gear matches to the starter. Correct? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:45pm
| Have you pull-started it yet to see if it even runs?? You may screw around and replace the ring gear and then find out the crankshaft needs to be removed from the engine and get to split it twice. |