HD6 Advice
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=119158
Printed Date: 11 May 2024 at 3:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD6 Advice
Posted By: split
Subject: HD6 Advice
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:10am
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I bought a property and it included an HD6 tractor. Upon closer inspection, there is a rod sticking through the engine block. 1. Is this tractor worth fixing? 2. What is the right approach to fixing this....for example, get a short block, send the engine out for a complete rebuild, buy a new engine, etc. 3. What other problems might this tractor have that I should inspect before dumping $$$ into it? 4. What year is this tractor?     |
Replies:
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:26am
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your intentions for repairing the tractor should have a bearing on how and if you decide to fix it. if your plan is to keep it and use then maby yes. if you plan to fix and sell your unlikely to make your money back. depends on your skill, whether you send out for repair and your budget. short blocks are not available. current engine could be fixed but probably cost prohibitive depending on other internal damage and lanova engine parts are getting hard to come by. swapping in a good known engine is probably the most cost effective route but a gamble since you cant run the machine to test other functions. likely it was functioning until it threw a rod but how long has it been sitting is anyones guess. track pads dont look very worn but that isnt a good indication of pin and bushing/sprocket wear. If the undercarriage is good, then possibly a good candidate to fix. we need the serial # to know for sure what year but with lanova engine it could be 1955-1962 also you may receive more info posted in construction equipment forum and yes. if it was on my property i would try to fix it, but that is not an option for everyone. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:27am
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Looks like a pretty handy sized crawler and seems like it hasn't sat too long.I don't know much about those crawlers and parts availability, but If it was mine, I think I would try to fix it. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:39am
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I plan to use it. But if the best answer is to sell it for scrap and buy something else, I can go that route too. I have no idea how long it has been sitting like this. Here is an image of the plate on the block. It is difficult to read and I'm 2000 miles away right now so I can't get a better image  |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 12:15pm
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I also have the ability to fix this tractor myself, as long as I have the information necessary as is typically found in a shop manual. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 12:24pm
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I wouldn't scrap it yet. See if you can find another machine with a good engine and bad under carriage. Well I guess you need to look at your undercarriage first to see if it has life left in it also. I see what your saying about the air conditioned engine block! Yikes. Do you have a bigger machine to move this one somewhere to work on it? Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 1:55pm
| split I had several the crawler loader version of that. The later motors had a heaver bottom end than the earlier ones, but the later motors were a even swap. Looks like you will have to remove the brush cab, take the radiator shroud off, pull the radiator, and everything should slide out the front. We removed the motor and tranny together, separated them outside the dozer. It was easier to do that way. While you have them out make sure you adjust the transmission brake before you put everything back together. Its been about 6 years since I did the last one, memory is not good. The belly pan is not too heavy, a good floor jack would be a help. I think the belly pan bolts are fine threaded, kinda keep them separated. I still have some new OEM radiator hose for 1 in the shed. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 2:06pm
that is engine model and serial. tractor serial is on dash on a plaque or on right rear clutch housing behind winch
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
split wrote:Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 3:35pm
| Looks like a parts machine to me, undercarriage parts are getting harder to find for those and if yours are in good shape would prolly be the most valuable item. Post your inquiry on the construction side of this forum and you will get additional help there. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 3:38pm
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Just viewing your HD6 photos, its overall condition, tracks, & blade doesn't look too bad. One bonus is it has a rear winch. That can be very handy item. Congrats on owning an AC dozer. You should fix it or part it out to others on this site. Please don't scrap it. According to my AC Farm Equipment 1914-1985 Norm Swinford book, the early HD dozers had a GM engine. Began in 1939 with two cycle GM diesels. WWII delayed larger & smaller dozers, so the HD5 & HD19 began in 1946. HD6 were not built in this period. Later in 1953, AC acquired Buda diesel engines. The 1956 HD6B had a Buda D344 (4cyl CR of 15.0-1 Lanova (energy cell combustion chamber, natural aspiration). It had a max dbr 49.96hp & max pull of 12636lbs. In early 1960's, AC diesel engines were re-designed to direct injection, open chamber, a feature that provided easier starting and improved fuel economy. These were known as the Thousand Series and the AC 6000 engine was installed in the HD6B or HD6E. The AC 6000 engine was a 344cu in 4cyl CR of 16.25-1, natural aspiration. It's max engine 75hp, max dbr 52 hp, max pull 15,485lbs. HD6E had power steering, power brakes, raised seat, multi-disk oil clutch. In 1964, AC Ag Crawlers got a turbo, lighter weight grill & bumpers and reduced track guard equipment. So, a HD6AG had a AC 7000, 344cu in, 4 cyl, CR 16.25-1, had max engine 90hp. Althought the 344 cu in engines saw 3 different horsepower ratings, they all were turning the same 1800 rpms. All the HD6 dozers had a 5 forward, 1 reverse transmission. |
Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:26pm
| We had a 1956 HD-6 with 4 forward and 2 reverse. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:38pm
| I have one picture of the dash, and I can see what looks like a plate, but its too blurry to read. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:39pm
| I have a bobcat that can lift the engine, but I doubt it can pull/push the HD6 from its present location. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:43pm
Perhaps we can't determine an exact year...yet, but from the pictures can we determine if this has a turbo or direct injection?? What is your best guess on the year? |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:47pm
Here is a picture of the dash, perhaps this will provide additional info for those that are familiar with this HD6.
 |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 5:05pm
| It's a 1955 year model no later than June of 1956. Place your bets now. |
Posted By: Bill Deppe/AC Salvag
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 6:01pm
| Have a couple of the described 7000 series engines, gov't surplus |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 6:16pm
As I have essentially no experience with this tractor, beyond taking a few pictures, I don't know anything about it, including the details of the engine, other than what is posted so far on this thread. So its not clear to me which engines, if any, might bolt in as a replacement. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 8:22pm
| Has to be an earlier one, has the push rod starter on it. |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:11pm
| The serial number is on the bottom aluminum tag on the dash, below the hand throttle lever. ''IF YOU POST IT ANSWERS WILL COME" It's visible in your picture, but not readable |
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 5:05am
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Um! Would that fan belt in the fuel pump photo be inside out? Not sure what that says if so. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 6:38am
| Split, I'd be checking into one of them engines that Bill Deppe/AC Salvage has and bring that thing back to life, Darrel |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 7:34am
| Keep it find a government surplus 7000 series motor. Search the forum for posts about the swap. Send a PM to the people who have done the swap and you will find they are more than happy about the results Send me a PM and I can put you in contact with a person that has done the swap and has the HD344 motor he replaced for sale. The 7000 motor from a generator set have been on eBay for as little as $500. I found out about the surplus motors after I invested $3000 on a rebuild of my HD344 motor. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 7:45am
| There are (3) of the government surplus 7000 motors for sale on eBay right now. Price from $1600 to $2750. The turbocharged 7000 motor makes the HD6 come alive with new power and a great turbo sound. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 8:46am
| Steering clutches might be stuck. 1 of mine did after I let it sit 2 years due to0 back and arm problems. Next time you are near it, post close up a picture of the sprocket teeth and the large front roller. Is the floor pan, the 1 that your feet rest on somewhere close by? The knob on the upper left of the dash is the fuel shutoff. The long lever leaning forward beside it is the clutch. When you pull it back does it snap good? It should take something like 35 lbs of force to make it snap back, going from bad memory here. If it is like mine it is a 24 volt system, looks like the top to the battery box is off, should be 2 12 volt batterys in it. I wish I could buy a property with 1 on it. |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 9:54am
| The hydraulic cylinders are not original AC. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 10:34am
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I figured this was a late 60's early 70's tractor based on its appearance. Based on the comments so far it seems that this may be a 60 year old tractor. This is concerning as the people that owned this property, and therefore the tractor, were not the type to maintain equipment. My bet is they ran the thing without oil or with oil so old that the rod through the block was inevitable. This would likely also mean that the upper end of the engine has also seen abuse. Hence a new motor is likely the only answer. But then this brings into doubt the condition of the rest of the tractor. What sort of transmission does this have? Is it easy to check the fluid condition? It may be a couple of months until I'm back there again, so I would like to come up with a plan of action so that once I'm there I can determine how to proceed or not. I do have someone going to the property next week. I will have them take a few pictures of the dash. If there are any other pictures that would help, please let me know. |
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:02am
| I suggest you see how much is left of the undercarriage. Some can be done by looking such as the bushing condition. A better assessment can be made with a track gauge, try to find one it is a hand held plate cutout and marked to show when held against wear surface of sprockets,idlers, and rollers how much is left. Also measures the rail height and will be marked showing when buildup or replacement is needed. As I said before if the bottom is good you probably will be ahead selling those parts and haul the rest for scarp. Just my opinion, keep us posted. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:27am
I'm just not familiar enough with this tractor or the vocabulary you are using above to make this assessment. If you can be more specific or if there are videos of these areas being examined or replaced, I would be better able to internalize what you are referring to as "undercarriage". |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:37am
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something else i noticed. in 57' the engines were given a 6- prefix to the serial # which yours does not have so that coupled with the push rod starter indicates you most like have a 55-56 model. also the letter or letters following HD6__ -xxxx in tractor serial # will indicate which series, gauge of track (width), number of track links, and transmission type. Im guessing this tractor to be a HD6A-xxxx which would make it the 5 speed sliding gear transmission, 44 inch gauge and 33 links per side. In my opinion the manual transmission dozers dont generally give to much trouble. they dont have oil pumps to wear out, hoses to suck air, or filters to clog. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:41am
undercarriage refers to the following wear items of the tracks. front idler, truck rollers (bottom rollers), rear sprocket, rail (chain), and its parts contacting the sprocket (bushing and internal pins) and support rollers ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:55am
Ah, okay, I follow that. As far as I know this tractor was in operation at the time it blew...so the track system must have been operating. So its at least usable, though it might be worn out. Does anyone have good/bad pictures of these wear items item? |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 2:05pm
You are referring to the Track sprocket and roller?
I noticed that it appears to be missing in the picture. I did find a flat metal piece, which could be the pan, but I doubt it as the paint was too good on it. The pan may be missing
I never tried the controls....they all looked very unfamiliar to me. I will try it next time I'm there.
It appeared to have two battery boxes on either side of the operators seat. The cover was off of both of them. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 3:39pm
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I found this picture which shows the pan or some sort of cover. It is sitting atop the track. Anyone know what this is?  |
Posted By: nella(Pa)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 4:28pm
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[QUOTE=split] I found this picture which shows the pan or some sort of cover. It is sitting atop the track. Anyone know what this is? It is the cover that goes over the starter.
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Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2016 at 2:29am
| It is a fender. Go on top of the frame and covers the starter. Probably had it off checking the starter when the engine wouldn't crank. |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 10:03pm
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I had someone take a few more pictures. The first one is of the engine plate.  This is from the dash. The top plate is unreadable. The lower plate is subject to interpretation. It appears to be: 86P1780 there may be another digit in front of the first 8, but I can't make it out.  |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 10:25pm
| From the looks of the pads I would guess that the undercarriage is good. if the are, a motor change would be in order. Just my opinion, it,s you nickel. Leon Cmo |
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 2:45pm
| Split; If you can find someone on this site or else where that has a track gauge who would be willing to trace it out on some thick paper like poster type paper and mail it to you then you could determine the condition of the undercarriage. If the undercarriage parts are serviceable that will be the parts of the most value. Yes you could put another engine in it and use it on your property however it sounds like (pardon me for saying this) you aren't real mechanical and this old machine needs a real mechanic. I suggest you sell the machine for the value of track parts plus scrap price for whats left over. Not many people out there who have the skill and equipment to move a dead crawler and undertake a project of this size. JMO Mark |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 4:43pm
I have posted a picture of the track gauge on here 
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 8:07am
| It is sad whenever one of these GRAND OLD MACHINES is scrapped. The HD6 is one of the last crawlers that a mechanic can work on. Newer faster more productive crawlers are more complicated and difficult to keep running. If you are unable to transplant a motor find someone that can. The value is in the undercarrage however the HD6 can continue working until the track bushings are worn thru and the track pins are visible. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 3:34pm
| split, if you could take a picture of the sprockets, front idlers, maybe a roller you really wouldn't need a track gauge. Be nice to have but not mandatory. Then post the pic. here and the guys would have a better idea of their condition. Also if you can reach under the track at the top, feel of the bushing and see how much wear is on it. They can stand a lot of wear before needing to be changed. They can also be turned half a round and then you're pulling on a fresh side. You seem to have at least a moderate amount of mechanical ability or you would't be thinking about working on the machine. Be warned tho. that it is hard heavy work. But it's nothing a case of brew and four or five friends can't handle. Leon Cmo |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 3:49pm
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And if you get it running, don't wait till they look like this to turn them pins and bushings... As seen on a TD18
 or like these... on the HD5 I had bought as was/is.
 ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 3:55pm
| Amazing! See how long they can run? Leon Cmo |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 2:18pm
| By the way a set of pad bolts would save an unbelievable amount of time if you have to change out the rails. On this size I've taken a railroad spike hammer, set the track up on it's side and hit the nut on it's side a good hard lick. Go down one side of the track, turn the track over and repeat. It's a lot easier than fighting all those rusted together bolts. Oh, the bolts snap right off. Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 7:01am
| If I owned this machine I would fix it. You should know that you should be able to purchase a working HD6 for less than it will cost you to replace the track and motor. I enjoy running equipment that I was able to repair and put back into service. I am proud to have saved heavy equipment from being melted down as scrap. |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 1:42pm
| Running with track like that you could brooked a final drive |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 2:46pm
| I just wonder if the finals would hold up to a 90h.p. engine without being awfully careful? It sure would make a good machine and I'd jump on it like a duck on a june bug. Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: combinechris
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 5:23pm
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I got some of my undercarriage parts from Cat. ------------- 35 combines and 15 forage harvesters. mostly allis combines and equipment.WTB 2 row cornhead for a 90 |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 5:18am
| Hey split, what's the latest? We all interested(nosey). |
Posted By: split
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 3:14pm
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I have yet to return to Oregon where the Tractor is located. Lately, I have been thinking that even though there is a hole in the block, I might be able to weld or patch the hole....enough to seal in the oil, and then replace the lower bearings to get it running. This assumes the crank is not hammered....which it likely is. I just don't want to dump a lot of time and $$$ into this old machine, which might have a host of other problems that may have existed prior to the failure and new issues resulting from sitting for an unknown number of years |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:37pm
| Be a shame to not bring'er back to life, but it's yours to do with as you please, not somebody else. Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 6:54am
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You have to understand that you are not going to be able to weld the block and get it running. Compared to working on automobiles everything on heavy equipment is about 5 times heavier, more expensive, and more difficult to replace. The least expensive repair will be to find another motor. The worst thing you could do is to take it apart and not repair it. The HD6 is a grand old machine and should be repaired. Do not start the project unless you have the time and resources to complete it. It is going to cost at least $3000. If you get it operational you might be able to sell it for $3000 to $5000 Comments please |
Posted By: michale34
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:07am
| the least expensive thing on these is the diesel it takes to run it . even a simple fan belt is 10x more than a car |
Posted By: Ferdinand
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:45am
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There is an AC 7000 engine for sale in Richmond, VA: $800.00 with turbo. If I understand correctly, this is the engine to convert HD6's. I'd take on a project like that but, the dozer is in Oregon. 2500 miles away from me. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 7:01am
| The motor for sale for $800 in Virginia is the motor from an Allis Chalmers 7000 tractor. This is NOT the HD344, 6000, 7000 motor that would exchange with the HD6. I am looking for the 344 cubic inch (7000 series) diesel that fits the HD6 So far the cost of shipping has prevented me from purchasing one |
Posted By: Ferdinand
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 9:14pm
| Sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone. I"m still learning about AC equipment. |
Posted By: TimBinWV
Date Posted: 09 May 2016 at 12:44pm
| I have a good used 344 Buda in an HD6g loader, if interested. |
Posted By: serioussam
Date Posted: 13 May 2016 at 10:16pm
| Not sure how far this one is from you http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/earthmoving-machinery/bulldozers/auction-1079030320.htm |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 14 May 2016 at 1:00pm
|
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/earthmoving-machinery/bulldozers/auction-1079030320.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/earthmoving-machinery/bulldozers/auction-1079030320.htm ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: Ferdinand
Date Posted: 15 May 2016 at 7:32am
Where i come from, we call that "wore slap out".  |
Posted By: Bcrichardsonusmc2004
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 1:54am
| Where are you located? |