516 replacing 426
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=118546
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2024 at 7:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 516 replacing 426
Posted By: allisguy.11
Subject: 516 replacing 426
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 9:08am
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Got an n7 motor that needs to go into either my 7080 with a bad motor or my 220 with a bad motor. Does anyone have any experience with this? Have seen post on here before about someone putting one into a D21. Thanks in advance! |
Replies:
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 2:30pm
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I've been thinking about doing this also with a Fwa 8000. I believe the crank bolt pattern is the same between the 426 and 516. So just need a rear plate made, then a front brace or plate. Be pretty awesome! ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 6:34pm
| we've gotta decide which one to do. 516 is what should have been in the 7080 anyway!! |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 6:39pm
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I'd say 7080, that way ya don't have to try and mount the hydraulic pump on the engine. ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 7:01pm
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Plus more under hood room in the 7080. ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: JPG AUSTRALIA
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 8:30pm
| This would be good to see,i have a 516 in my m100 allis grader, and always thought why didnt they put this in the bigger models,7080,7580 and n6, a,ll got allis a bad name here for their engine problems |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2016 at 12:24pm
| we are leaning more toward the 7080. going to be a big job but we will overcome problems as we encounter them. Wish me luck! |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2016 at 12:27pm
| luck wished |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2016 at 8:04pm
| I know that KCGrain was planning on putting a 516 into a 7580 at one time. I am not sure if he ever got it done or not, but if he did, he get give you a lot of help, seeing how things between the 7080 and 7580 have a lot of similarities. Darrel |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 6:17am
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this angle has been hashed out before in regards to why the 516 wasnt put in the 7580. if i recall correctly, the 516 is an older design, not suited for the rpms needed in the tractors and was not as fuel efficient as the 426. the slower speeds and increased torque would reduce drive train longivity. there is a loong post about this. probably a couple years back if someone wanted to search. now would doing it be cool. yes. practical. maby not, but thats not always why things are done. I do believe the guys at reliance works have done a few of these if i remember correctly.
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 8:57am
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The 516 was a slow engine of old design that was a lot more expensive to build. I always thought they should have upped the cubes of the 426 platform, like many of us do on pullers. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:17am
| the only reason why I am considering the 7080 is because of the beefier rear.it would be a fun project and I think it would do pretty well in a pull. I have a spare open station platform outback that came off a 7010 we parted out.. I think it would be a pretty cool frankentractor. |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 1:12pm
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Do it. Do it and post lots of pictures of your 7095. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 8:27pm
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Talk to Gary Karlen in Ohio who puts and build these things in pulling tractors etc. Was going to put ion my D 21 puller, but sold the rolling chassis. ------------- B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling. |
Posted By: ajl
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 10:10pm
| Need a combine? It is possible to find an N6 with a bad engine and stick your engine in it and then you will have a big combine on the cheap. Otherwise I vote to stick it in the 7080. Way cool. |
Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 7:54pm
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I vote 7080. :) ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 3:21pm
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7080 it is |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 7:04pm
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7080 would be my vote as well. Please take lots and lots of pictures. It has been my dream too. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 9:37pm
| Would the frame rails on a 7580 hold the 516?...I think it would cool to see one in either a 7080 or 7580 |
Posted By: Big Orange
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 10:31pm
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JPG AUSTRALIA There's A reasons for the engine problems in 7080s, 7580s & N6 combines. Allis- Chalmers engines uses what I call A true fullflow lube system. That means all of the oil from the pump goes through the filters first, then to the pressure regulating valve. that's a great system because all the oil is filtered all the time, but if the filters are not large enough to flow the volume the pump is pumping through them the oil goes through the filter bypass valve & unfiltered oil goes to the main bearings then to the rod bearings.The 7060s, 50s, 40s' & 30s ran 2,300 RPMs rated. The engines in the 7080s, 7580s, N6 combines all ran 2,550 RPMs rated & 2,775 high idle RPMs , that made the oil pump volume go up & the dirty oil was bypassing the filters & going to the bearings. |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2016 at 10:37am
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I plan on going through the engine. The way I see it is that the tractor is no good the way it is now and it needs an engine. After I go through it, it wouldn't be a everyday working tractor. Shows, occasional pulls and some discing or something. If I don't wind it up ill be alright for as long as ill have it |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2016 at 4:10pm
| Is a 516 built the same as an 844? Those things are all cast iron and super heavy,,, seems they could've lost some weight some place |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 7:26pm
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Did this swap happen?or? ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 8:18pm
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I'm now interested too since I just acquired a later 516 (11000 MKII) on a genet. ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 11:09am
Similarly built. The 344 is a 4 cylinder version of the 516. But all these including the 844 are old BUDA designed engines. Slow and heavy.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
DougG wrote:Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 5:54pm
| well we just got our L crawler up and running and the steering clutches done so the 7080 will get shoved in the hole the L came out of. hope to get it in before christmas. stay tuned |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 11:30am
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get this swap going yet? ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 2:37pm
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I know a guy that has put one in a 7580. Says it made a whole new tractor out of it.
------------- Making A living everyday farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 7:14pm
| well the L restoration is complete as of last week.... if I could figure out how to get pictures on this ^%^%$&*$#&^ page i would love to share. Spent 40 minutes screwing with it and no luck. annnnnyyywayyyyyy... the 7080 project is still next on this list. Ill keep you posted when we start. maybe I can post pictures of the progress. |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 7:17pm
| I actually tried to move the 7080 the other day... drove it to where it is a year ago. buring oil, smoking, leaking and just plain old wore out. it must have had a hard life. tried starting it and she just spun and spun... like no compression. no smoke. no luck off ether. i think she finally gave up. |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 7:19pm
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oh and the 220 actually got a new lease on life... that was another possible canidate for this swap. found a genset with 4 hours on it. vertical cooler.... all correct. loooks and runs like new. fun process in swapping stuff around and getting it to work but she purs now |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 9:40am
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Soooooooo any update on this? ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 9:55am
| nope..... too many projects. come do it for me lol |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 8:28am
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My argument is if the 516 is such a poor engine and outdated then why, praytell, did Allis put it in the N7? And why is it considered a better engine than the N6's 426 by most combine operators? My dad's HD11 has the 516 and it is a great starting engine even in the cold and is very fuel efficient compared to the neighbors Cat, going by the Cat owner who used to own that very HD11. I've seen testimonials on the combine forum where most with experience with Gleaners of that vintage say the 516 is a far better engine than the 426 and actually uses less fuel in the N7 than the 426 in the N6. I have never bought it that it was an obsolete engine. You know what? If it needed upgrades like a better fuel system or better piston design or whatnot then do that. If there is too many cast Iron parts....oil pan? or valve covers? I don't what is cast on these......... Put tin on. I don't get it. The engines used by Case are big and heavy and that is used as a selling point. And anyhow, a 7080 needs 1500# of weight added out front and fluid in the front tires in order to use the power. Skip some of that by using a heavier engine. Tell me this, how well did an over reved 426 putting out 220 flywheel HP work out? Thought so. Hindsight is 20/20 but my hindsight says the 516 would have been a far better choice and the warranty work that Allis was forced to spend big dollars would have been avoided not to mention the reputation the 7580 and 7080 gave Allis that affected the whole line by rumor. There................ rant over. I'll take a biscuit.
Oh and torque can be controlled, as far as I know, by fuel delivery. Make that engine fit the desired torque curve by fuel delivery. Either that or the 7080 driveline was a dang poor design and should have never been built......... I know that's not true. Or the 426, how about why didn't they ever try to change the connection rods to an offset cap so a larger journal could be utilized? Why was M&W able to come up with a better piston that provided better starting? It just sounds like engineering gave up or something. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 8:50pm
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Lonn, I agree with you totally on the 426, with a few updates, larger rod journals, taller head with bigger valves so it will breath better, and of course most importantly an inline injection pump, it could of had a good life. I have measured a 516 out of an N7 and it is too wide in the front below the injection pump to fit in the frame rails of a 7 or 8000 without some major modification.
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