Corn planter AC vs John deer
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112853
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2024 at 10:12pm
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Topic: Corn planter AC vs John deer
Posted By: Klausp
Subject: Corn planter AC vs John deer
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 4:10pm
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Is a AC 333 planter comparable to a John deer 7000? What would the big differences be? |
Replies:
Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 5:54pm
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IIRC, a 7000 should have gauge wheels, while I don't think the 333 did. I thought the 7000 was supposed to do better with depth control, but I can't say for certain. I'd think that the age and size would be comparable. We've owned a Deere 7000 that my father converted to plateless in the early 1990s. It makes a nice stand. I've heard that you can run JD plates with an adapter, so you may be able to go plateless like we did. I'll have to ask my father about the conversion. I haven't spent much time with the machine, and it's been a few years since we did corn.
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Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 6:52pm
| I have a 333 and it does have gauge wheels and plants picket fence rows. Ran a 7000 Deere for many years before the 333 and performance on both is about the same. The 333 is a heavier machine and back heavy unless the fertilizer boxes are full. Personally I like the 333 better. |
Posted By: Klausp
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 7:21pm
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I need 1 just for 30 acres we are doing organic beans Have to be no till and I have to plant through a bed of rye grass layed over, not tilled under. So if the 333 is heavy that should work good. |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 7:22pm
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we ran allis for almost everything except planters and hay equipment new Holland hay equipment is the only way to go and jd planters, the 7000 was sweet with finger pickup and no plates ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 7:41pm
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I use a 7000 conservation, but there is a old 8-30 planter in the weeds ive been thinking of dragging out to plant beans with ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 8:41pm
------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Klausp wrote:Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 9:06pm
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Have a 7000 and do not like it. It has the finger pick up. Every season it goes to the Deere dealer to get recalibrated. We still get doubles and skips. I ran an Allis air champ for seven years and that was great. no skips or doubles and plant the right population. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Klausp
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 9:37pm
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I have a hard time paying 5k+ for a JD7000 when I can get a AC 333 for $1500 in my area Specially if they are that close in how they preform. |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 11:16pm
| What about a white planter? Easy to find parts for, you don't have to take the meters in yearly for calibration. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 12:35am
| I've had jd, ih, kinze, buffalo, demster and ac planters....ac and dempster are the easiest one to adjust and run. I still use my ac and parts have been no problem...but haven't needed much either! it has always given me a great stand. I have an 8-row and a 6-row. I can go out in the spring, and be ready to plant within an hour. I keep the boxes inside, but the rest of the planter sits outside the rest of the year. white planters are also a very good planter, and parts should not be a problem either. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 12:49am
| plus the jd planter has a zillion bearings |
Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 7:06am
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neighbor has a white and really likes it. im thinking of getting one myself! ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 8:17pm
You get what you pay for. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 8:28pm
Well said! Smart farmers are color blind. Back in the day Allis made great tractors and combines but took a back seat in planting equipment. Deere dominated planting equipment but sucked with combines and tillage. We ran an Allis planter for a couple years when I was growing up. The Deere 7000 was a huge step up in the world. Drop n some Kinze brush meters and you have a bean planting machine. Funny you mentioned NH hay equipment they made very nice hay equipment but were terrible with tractors. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 9:03pm
| We have relatives who ran a White planter. They absolutely loved it! |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 10:37pm
Like I said I have used both the AC air planter and the JD 7000 with the finger pickup. The AC out performed the JD. Doing a side by side comparison and picking what works best is being a smart farmer. My uncles are still using the JD planter because "It's a Deere". I hate to think how much revenue is lost due to all the skips and doubles the JD planter makes, but it's green so they have to have it. Every brand has had their good and bad products and Allis is no exception. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 7:34am
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With the finger pickups properly adjusted and tested, my 7000 didn't skip. It did drop an extra seed every 15 feet that made me run out of seed. It didn't need serious modifications to work well no till. I used AC plow coulters to cut the stover and Dawn trash whippers to clear the stover from the planter path. The Cyclo 400 was good at counting but horrible at bunching and skipping. On the average the seed spacing was OK, but by the foot it often dropped three then skipped a foot on corn. Once on beans a pipe plugged and I planted 5 rows instead of 6 which made it hard to go replant. One other time the fan drive belt wore down and it planted the first 50 feet of the bean field and then dropped no more beans. I didn't have a working monitor for it. They called it a planter, I called it a pile of .... and more than once I wanted to make it the center of a bonne fire but it wouldn't have contributed enough combustible material to the fire. Gerald J. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 10:35am
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Wow some folks are color blind. Here almost very on run Deere planters doesn't matter if it's a orange, red, blue or green tractor pulling it. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 12:34pm
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I have an Oliver disk, a bigger JD disk, a Case-IH field cultivator, an IH sickle mower, a Case plow, an Allis 2000 plow, a Heston mower/conditioner. a JD 7000 planter, a Cyclo 400 as is, another converted to a liquid side dresser, a JD flail mower, a JD rotary hoe, a JD row cultivator, a JD 4020 with MF 236 loader, a MF-135, a long 1099 three point back hoe, a sprayer I built, a JD 112 garden tractor and an EWJ garden tractor with a modified 1 bottom horse plow. I used to have a Ford 8N, an IH hay rake, a MF-12 baler, and an odd brand wheel type hay rake. I have two snappers and the JD 112 plus a Lawn Boy and a Black and Decker for lawn mowing. Not all are working right now. Gerald J. |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 8:21pm
We do run all Allis tractors but the implements are all over the place. Oliver, International, Deere, Glencoe, Krause, Toro & Allis. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 8:22pm
Where do you have your planter calibrated? ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 8:34pm
| The frame mounted no til coulters separate the deere from the allis. You can load the frame on the AC and get the coulter in the ground and the unit can put the seed into the soil, row mounted coulters are hard to get heavy enough for some soils and conditions. The Allis unit has the opener discs set up in a way that they can put soil out of the trench in some soils and conditions, travel speed and moisture can affect this, slower is usually better. The parts are available for the AC but they will cost you. Like seed pads were $60 and they need to be good for the units to work as well as they are capable of. They deteriorate over time more than acres so that is a drawback on small usage. Same for the rubber springs in the no til coulters worn out or broken and torn wont do the right kind of job. They last many years, not sure what they cost but it will be enough to notice.rw I like my 333 with 78 air units most of the time, but better planters are made especially since 1985 was 30 years ago. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 9:10pm
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I had my finger units calibrated at a Deere dealer. They have a test stand for that. The so called no till 7000 with the wide waffle coulters is not very good unless the ground is dry and dusty. Otherwise those coulters plug up with mud and make a packing wheel in the worst place, the row. I used a plow coulter to cut stover and to make a slot for 32% when planting corn. I can post pictures if desired. Have to dig for them but I have them on a server already but not as a web page. I used coulters borrowed from my AC plow and Dawn trash whippers to separate the sliced stover and it notilled perfectly except for the extra dropped seed. The finger units do wear. The fingers wear, their mountings and springs wear, and the back plate with its nubbin to release the seed wears along with a little brush. There are Deere parts, Shoup parts, and Precision Planting parts. The belt that lowers the seed from the finger unit also wears and it along with the seed tube that gets worn by the ground and the opening disks wear. Then other wear points in the 7000 are the gauge wheel pivots. There are parts from Deere, Shoup, and most say the best ones from RK Products that are most easily adjusted and wear the best. Also the pivots for the closing wheel tail piece wear and those same sources have parts with RK considered to be better. Gerald J. |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 9:40pm
We have Deere dealer go through the planter every spring and also calibrate the units. We still get skips and doubles. I'm of the opinion is this a waste of money based on how it plants. Maybe a different dealer is the answer. I just never had any issues or had to spend much money on the AC air planter. The only thing I ever had to replace was the cable for the markers. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 9:52pm
| If you have to no till and you go with the Deere,be sure it has the heavy duty down pressure springs, and the slower you plant the better job of will do, but I suppose that is true of any planter. I'm 38 years old and cannot remember anyone around here ever using an Allis planter. Around here you either ran a Deere or a Deere...few guys had those IH suck blow things but they were considered wierdos. We had a 1290a and a 7000 they were both good planters....finger pick up always worked well for us if you maintained them. We now have a Kinze and I wouldn't ever own anything else again |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 9:54pm
| Oh and if u go with the Deere....buy the Kinze bean meters for it...much better than the old seed cup meters |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 11:20pm
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Lots of Kinze planter parts interchange with JD 7000 parts. Kinze built planters for Deere at one time, then went to building planter bars to make bigger planters with Deere row units buying them from Deere, but Deere quite supplying the row units, so Kinze built them again for their own sales. Deere sued and lost. I'm sure they write their subcontractor contracts more in their favor now. The Kinze bean brush units are no comparison to the Deere bean cups. The Kinze bean units count precisely and space evenly. The Deere bean cups are badly controlled spills. OK with $12 a sack bean seed, but not good for $50 a sack seed. Its important to have the finger meters adjusted with the seed you will be planting. The adjustments are critical to size and weight of the seed. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 11:57pm
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Kinzie invented the Deere pick-up units and Deere was using it without paying Kinzie. That's why they lost the law suit! Good old Deere, they let someone else invent and perfect something and then they paint it green and sell it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 1:05am
| best thing that Deere ever copied was a wagon gear! |
Posted By: dkattau
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 2:07am
Not true. Kinzebaw didn't invent the MaxEmerge row unit. He started making the toolbars for Deere when they couldn't keep up. He bought the row units from Deere and started making his own planters. All the original Kinze planters had JD row units on them. At that time you could order just the row unit through sales, and he took advantage of that. The row units were the result of 3 different ideas, not one(Deere had started using the plateless meter in '68). Deere failed to patent the entire row unit. That's what got them burned. Kinze took advantage of this. He did come up with the brush meter. Deere has its own version now. |
Posted By: dkattau
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 2:47am
That must have been one heck of a running gear, keeping them in business all these years. Too bad AC, IH, Case, Oliver and MM couldn't make a decent wagon. Could have saved them, would still be able to buy a new one. Is it possible for you to post to a topic without talking about yourself or running someone else down? Wow. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 3:26am
| prolly not, cuz some people take things to seriously! they gotta loosen up! |
Posted By: Alex (wi)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 4:11am
| About the only planter I have not run is the Kinze. But I will say I like the Allis Chalmers and White the most. As the White slogin goes "Simply Advanced". White and Allis Chalmers had air singulation row units 30 years ago, now the other companies are finally catching up and doing the same. The Allis Chalmers Quadra-Disk is a great idea too, but probably too expensive to copy now a days. I run a Allis Chalmers 385 personally. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 5:19am
Wow? You are on an Allis Chalmers enthusiast's site,,,,,just in case you forgot. |
Posted By: dkattau
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 6:14am
I didn't forget. If you're going to criticize someone or something, use the truth. Don't pull down some BS out of the air to prove your point. It always "Deere owners have such an attitude" or "they think they're better" on here. Sounds like hypocrisy to me. I think it's jealousy on some folks parts. Yeah, it's a bad deal that AC went under and AGCO is lacking when it comes to customer support. Does making fun of someone or something else change history, make the current situation better? No. I thought this was a forum to discuss a common interest- AC farm equipment. Not to make everything a "who's better than who" bitchfest. Guess I was wrong. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 6:51am
| dkattau, ......seriously? |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 7:11am
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Here we GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Life is too short . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 7:50am
I realize that Deere gets knocked around on here pretty good, but it is an Allis Chalmers site. The attitude of Deere owners is pretty much right on. When you have Deere owners throw bottles, rocks and cans at you just because you wear a different brand hat, come on grow up. Shortly after I restored my "CA" I was hauling it to a parade. I pulled into a gas station to fill up. A little boy ran out and right over to the "CA" looking with a big smile on his face. When his dad came over he yelled at the boy and turned to me and said " That's no tractor, that's just a f***ing Allis Chalmers". Had a dealer threaten my wife and I with a shot gun because we had an Allis hat on in his showroom. I enjoy looking at all brands and talking to the owners, but when it comes to Deere I keep my guard up cause I just don't know what may happen. I just don't understand why people get bent out of shape over something so trivial. Not all Deere owners have this attitude and it is refreshing to meet them. They are just hard to find. There is a lot of truth to Shameless's comment. Back in the day Deere did copy or buy the rights to produce equipment. The planter units on the 7000 series planter is one of them. I forgot the company or person that designed it but the design was made in the late 1920's. Moving on. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 8:34am
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Dennis, please elaborate on "Threaten my wife and I with a shot gun". People that use any version of the "F" word in public and around kids under 16 at least ought to be put in a public stockade and slapped by church ladies for 12 hours. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 8:40am
| It took nearly 50 years to bring a row unit design into production, then Deere is bashed for doing it??? That doesn't add up quite right. |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 8:48am
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Back on topic. Dad bought our 7000 planter when i was pretty young and had an old 496? i think, runner planter before that. so i really have no experience with other brands. we too fall in the catigory of Allis tractors, IH tillage tools, Deere planters, NH hay equipment and Gleaner combines.
One thing i can tell you for sure is if you run too fast with a 7000 planting corn it will leave skips and doubles. i try not to run over 3.5 MPH and ours does a fantastic job. i dont remember ever having it calibrated either, but then again we only plant 20 acres of corn every other year. just enough to feed out 10 steers.
For beans we run a 7100 Deere 10 rows on 18" centers with kinze been meters. we always have an excelent results. doesnt matter the soil condition, wet or dry. depth is always the same and it always closes the furrow. i really can't complaing about the deere planters. but i hopefully will be upgrading to a Kinze 12-23 in the near future.
and i guess to pile on, name one thing Deere invented and didn't copy from anyone else. But hey, it's been a good model. they are still around and didn't have to spend all that money on R&D.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 9:12am
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Deere invented using dance hall girls to introduce new farm machinery to old farmers in 1960. That's was pretty smart. I'm no Deere fan but Dad's 7000 planter served us well for 20 years. It did need lots of upkeep to keep it planting well. On the White there just isn'y much upkeep and the Allis I had was good in that department too but the depth control with gauge wheels was hard to set compared to Deere. The Allis was more accurate with spacing though. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 9:57am
The owner of the dealerships son noticed my wife and I had AC hats on. He immediately got mad and rushed over us and said " How dare you wear that. Get your ass out of here or I will shot you with my shot gun.". As a matter of fact a fellow forum member was also there. He advised us that the man (I use that term loosely in this case) was not kidding and we better leave. My wife and I just left and never went back. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 10:05am
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whew! I get a little flack from dealers son about having A-C, but Ive never been threatened to be shot! ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 10:19am
Not sure when the first row crop planter was put in to production, but they were in use in the 1920's for sure. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 10:33am
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Wow, threatened like that, I'm not sure I would have had the decency to just leave. I'd either have beat the crap out of him, or stood there and called the cops. Saying row crop planters were in use in the 20's is a little different than saying "THE" row units on a 7000 were invented in the 20's. In either case, I actually don't know any better, or really care that much for that matter. Man it must be great to get a gig at Deere as an engineer though. There's nothing to do!!!! Everything made was simply copied, hahaha! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 12:00pm
| at least I can laugh at my mistakes....and I've made a lot of them thru my lifetime! some can't even admit their mistakes! and in posting mine, hopefully I can save someone else from making some of the same mistakes I did, saving them time and money! some may think i'm bashing someone or something! not always true...just passing on experience! some it will help, some refuse to listen! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 12:03pm
| Dennis...our deere dealer was about the same way....a real turd! and that's prolly why he's not in business anymore too! |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 3:21pm
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7000 and 7100 use the exact same row units. 7000 are pull behind, 7100 three point hitch. There are plate type and finger planter units for these planter, without many interchangeable parts. My parts book and operator's manuals show both but in Iowa I've never seen the plate type 7000. I'm sure the plate type planter unit goes back half a century or more before the finger units. Thew plate type planter has been in used a very long time. Gerald J. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2015 at 5:47pm
| I've seen 3-pt mounted 7000 planters at sales...they musta been changed over from pull type? a few 7000 plate type planters still show up once and awhile on consignment sales, they still bring pretty good money, but from what I've heard, about all of them are being shipped to mexico. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2015 at 8:27pm
You seen a 7100 same awesome planter just 3 pt hitch. Great for narrowing up and planting beans with Kinze meters can plant consistent picket fence bean stands and be able to change seed sizes without changing anything. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 6:57am
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |