Isky cam specs
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105445
Printed Date: 26 Jun 2024 at 4:34pm
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Topic: Isky cam specs
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Subject: Isky cam specs
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 5:32am
Found the specs to the old cam I had in the "open" class engine. Ran good, sounded great.  It was spec'd and ordered by someone other than me. I called Isky with the number and they gave me all the other information ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Replies:
Posted By: bigcountry48
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 8:23am
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What motor was the cam out of, and kind of cubic inches were you running with it? ------------- 1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45 |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 12:30pm
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45 motor, nothing major not enough cubes for todays world. Pankey ended up with it ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 5:34pm
| Larry why are you posting Pankey can specs Its amazing that if you google 175 cam specification you get this forum and Pankey saying that all cams being purchased when cam Dr. Are 280 advertised with .330 lobe lift . Nelson says that's a generic berry camshaft profile but Larry posted a Isky profile . The thing is 195 degrees duration stock in a 226 in a 326 ci can use 215 degrres duration and a 426 ci can use 235 degrees duration at .050 and they all three act the same .no such thing as to big a camshaft but vwrry much so thing as to little a engine. |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2015 at 7:45pm
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Mitch, I just put out there since I found it and didn't go looking for the other post. This is the cam you said that you didn't have anymore ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 01 May 2015 at 5:57am
| If Mitch hasn't seen it I'll pass this last post on to him . Your correct cam is in a quick reving running pulling currently engine. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 8:00am
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You didn't take a degree wheel and actually measure the cam out with a degree wheel did you Larry? ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 2:16pm
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NO..This is just what Isky told me when I gave them the cust number and info. Whoever has it now could do it for us i suppose. Mitch, who is running it now? ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 3:53pm
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That answers a lot. If you were to call isky and send them a cam you would not get anything like that grind for a flat plane, 180* Siamese port engine like this. Somewhere there's a mis communication and error. Wrong specs were given No offense to you Larry, but prank should know better.....of course he will lie through his teeth also and purposefully give bad information. We've seen it many times on here. The way these engines are configured limit the available time we have available for the induction events. An engine with individual ports can tolerate more duration. A 6 cyl Siamese port can tolerate more duration. But a 180* or flat plane crank simply can't. You see there is overlap of the intake and exhaust valves, then there is overlap of both intake valves on a port at the same time that one exhaust valve is open......you wind up with 3 valves open on 2 cylinders opened together. In a sense, to much duration will "airlock" the engine to where it's not going to run well at all. If you were to call any reputable can grinder or designer, you will get the same story. The way these engines are configured with the flat plane 180* offset crank and the Siamese port it is hard to run much duration. If it had individual ports, you could. If it were a 6 cyl inline you can run more. But anything much more than the mid 220's @ .050" isn't going to work. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 4:23pm
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Those specs you have listed also have a longer exhaust duration than intake duration. That works in a ford with a poor flowing exhaust. But on the case of the ac, its backwards. The exhaust actually flows quite well. I'll typically try and have a cam ground with less exhaust duration than intake for this reason. This helps the engine by allowing a few more degrees of push on the power stroke before the exhaust valve opens and it saves some of the exhausts inertia to scavange intake air in on valve overlap. This also allows for just a few more degrees of usefull intake duration, without in a sense opening up the cylinders to one another. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 5:32pm
| Yep Pankey told you that you were doing way to much port work on the exhaust side if you remember of coarse a search would show it if you forgotten any Pankey says you learn from him fairly quick though |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 9:28pm
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You should tell pank to come over to this site and inform us ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 5:08am
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WI...no offense taken. I knew nothing about what I jumped in to with both feet and had a hard learning curve. ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 7:20am
| Blue you will just have to petition forum to let him back on to get his experience and knowledge |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 8:40am
what? ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
mgburchard wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 10:18am
| Let me try an interpret........." Blue, you will just have to petition the Allis Forum members, to please let Panky back on the site to be able to write and share his vast experience and knowledge." |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 11:02am
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ohh okay makes more sense, here i was trying to revert back to my 1st grade self to understand that but since there are others here that can use punctuation and are efficient in grammar i dont have to anymore. as for the petition i will get right on that, propose it at the next unoffical allis legislative convention  of course like every other convention there will need to be a 75 percent minimum majority rule ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 11:40am
| Is there anyone who has read this thread that doesn't think Panky is still here???????? |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 7:15pm
| Larry the one Pankey spec for my 452 inch allis is 356 duration at .006 lift with ivo at 61.2 degrees btdc and ivc 115 degrees abdc |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:26am
Well pankey is no genius. At least you boys can laugh and say "I worked on it until it didn't run". ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:37am
| Seams to me he knows more about cams than you do. Larry post a spec of a different manufacturer than berry and its what Pankey said it was in the 175 cam spec topic .how long ago is that topic been seams you would have learned a little more by now on how all the shelve grinds are 244 duration at 50 |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 9:07am
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MG...Can you get me the info on where to get one of those and someone to talk to about? I am getting things rounded up to build another engine. I am liking what your showing. ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:37am
| Sure Its a Pankey and Iskyderian project .Pankeys number is 423- two42eightfive96 or the number you have for Ron Iskyderian |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:33am
Please post a video of that one running. It will take a super charger plus you two blow hards blowing in the intake ( a three charger set up LOL) for it to even fire with only 4 degrees of valve closer.
 |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 3:41pm
| Lol that's funny butch . I knew you didn't know anything about engines . a 4 cycle single cylinder engine has 720 degrees of rotation to complete a cycle |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 4:19pm
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452 inch single cylinder engine my ass lol. What level of the drug lab did that come from? ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 4:33pm
| Blue no one said 452 inch single cylinder . I said a Cingle cylinder four cycle engine has 720 degrees and Pankey had me post those specs cause Marty said advertised duration back in the 175 spec forum was seat to seat as you can see at .006 lifter rise it's 354 duration seat to seat duration for any cam would be 360 degrees but its figured at a lifter rise not seat to seat |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 4:41pm
No wonder you cant get cam timing right Pank, The degree wheel goes on the crankshaft, not the camshaft. We hadnt covered that for you but jee wizz? We assumed you knew something from watching engine build videos??? 356 duration = 4 less than a full turn. Blow hard boy or it aint goen to fire ,,,, blow hard. Life must be tough when you have to be hit over the head to learn anything
 dont forget to add video of your Allis single cylinder engine with 356 degrees of duration |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 4:46pm
Saved for future generations.
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:22pm
| Larry Ohio did you call Ron about the 356 degree of duration at .006 lifter rise? Let us know the duration at .050 please |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:53pm
your right pank, you (a nobody) was talking about a 452 inch allis pulling engine, geez you sure made that easy ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 8:17pm
| Blue Pank will build a 452 for anyone it just takes 15 grand of cash |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 8:37pm
------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 8:47pm
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You're 240 will run better than pranks imaginary build. He specked 115 degrees after bottom dead center intake valve closing....... trust me, a poor running weed whip will make more power. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 9:01pm
i do because to be honest all the numbers and technical info you contribute to teaching others escapes me, but i can and will admit i have no clue instead of making up crack pipe builds and specs ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 06 May 2015 at 9:36pm
| $15,000.00 for something that(theoretically)goes down the track at 3 MPH. Simply impressive..... |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:38am
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Who has the tractor with this cam in it now. I'd like to discuss this with them and see it run. I am still looking to get 500", but not sure if I can. Also thinking of a fuel injection set up. Seen a Kinsler set up on a little GM 4 banger and got me thinking. That would take care of all the carb issues and most likely be NATPA div 1 legal the way their rules are ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:50am
| Like the fuel injection Pankey is showing on my tractor over on all is WC and WD pulling engines face book forum . |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 8:10am
LOL Larry, You will never get an answer to a question like that from Pank.
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Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:21pm
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What is the facebook page. I'll see if I can find it sometime ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 1:51pm
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dont bother larry i checked this morning before i went to school, NO FUELINJECTION FOUND just some dorky carbs slapped on something with an allis chalmers hood ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 2:01pm
| Larry ohio Pankey says thank you for showing that Marty and Butch aren't the ones to talk to about camshafts . Even though it took two years you came through and that deserves a thank you Pankey says . |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 2:40pm
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One word..... "WOW" sums it up, to be interpreted anyway you please. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 5:01am
Marty, The late intake closing will help the all thread head studs last a bit longer and might help with bent con rods also. Maybe this one will get more than 5 hooks before KA-BOOM! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 5:16am
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Well the definition of a hook is to get the hook attached to the drawbar and move the sled. I have no doubt that opening the intake valve 61.2 degrees btdc and closing it 115 abdc the engine will not start or run under its own power. However it will turn over easy, and any decent battery will propel the tractor with the starter. It will last a good many hooks with charging in between ........pank won't have to worry about starting in gear any more. He won't be able to run his own leg over this time and take out any innocent port-a-potties. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:11am
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:29am
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180+115+61.2 is 356.2 but it doesn't work.....trust me. It doesn't work. And then you have a very slow ramp of you go from .006 lifter rise to .016 in 69 degrees, or 34.5 on each side. You'll have a pooch. Boys with stock parts will beat up on it. At 244* at .050 there is so much intake overlap it won't make any. You have to understand the dynamics of a Siamese port 4 cyl with a flat crank. And you don't. Just reading the fuel injection thread shows that. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:13am
| Once again, someone is trying to convince us that he has discovered a new break through in technology and everyone else is too dense to understand it. Ron Iskedarien's name is being bantered about above, so if Pankey is in bed with Ron, let's hear this from old Ron himself, get him on here to clear this up for us and make us understand it. My guess is that although we are led to believe that Pank and Isky are partnered up on this "new technology brainstorm", Isky has no knowledge of it. I would think that Pank would be grinding his own master cams in a top secret laboratory by now considering his level of expertise. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:21am
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:24am
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Here is the FI picture http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RangerCharlie/media/FI_zpseusv4snn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:39am
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That's awesome. A junk throttle body hanging on a carb. See the linkage behind it ha going onthe carb...... Anyways let's play along. Prank says its a constant flow system with 4 injectors in the manifold. 1200 cfm throttle body. There's no radius and a 90* corner to get the air from a 1200 cfm throttle body into a 120 cfm manifold. So the throttle body actually hinders what an unmolested manifold could do of it had a fighting chance. Now let me lay out out, 1-2-4-3 firing order. Constant flow spraying in manifold. Cyl 1 gets a drink, cyl 2 gets to small of a drink. Cyl 4 has had a lo g time before a drink and it's a big one and poor cyl 3 gets to small of a drink, meanwhile cyl 1 had a break and gets to big of a drink. Now how do we controlled the air to the system? We have a 1200 cfm throttle body on a 120 cfm manifold. So the throttle plate only rotates a few degrees in order to allow the engine to get all the air it's going to get. We controlled the fuel through a barrel valve in a constant flow system. The barrel valve is hooked by arms and linkage to the throttle shaft, or we could hook it to the throttle itself.......so we have no way to synchronise the barrel valve to the throttle as it rotates only a few degrees to get to WOT for the engine. So this fuel system of panks must be a real marvelous piece of engineering?......an attempt to be a big shot fuel systems engineer? Or just the rambelings of an idiot? ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:53am
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Butch, it just dawned on me.....the nuke goof troop is building a light super with those cam specs, 2 blowhards, one supercharger and fuel injection......rember 505 cube limit in light super, push rod engine boys. How's the air system plumbed? I use 3 turbochargers with 2 billet 4.3 compressors feeding a bigger billet, ball bearing bottom turbo. I've often wondered how 2 blowhards and a supercharger work. Does each of the blowhards blow in the supercharger? Does the supercharger blow the blowhards? Individually or in series? Does each blowhard blow another blowhard and the supercharger is just there as excess baggage? ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:01am
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No I think the blow hards blow each other while dreaming the engine is running while they take turns spinning the blower by hand ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:18am
| His engine may have a better chance of running backwards, maybe he's onto something here....That injection system is an absolute marvel, reminds me of a Kinsler setup I saw once being removed from an Indy car, and the new Chief Machanic doing this made the comment that he wouldn't hang that POS on a farm tractor, looks like Pank did though! |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:33am
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How about going to a roller cam? Any benefits? could a guy take a Hillborn from a SBC and cut it in 1/2 and adapt to work? ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:52am
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Pank, I have an idea for your next drama series. "How to install a needle and seat in a Zenith" Did you know you can shut the fuel off under the tank? Might save a shop fire and for certain some stink.
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:01am
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:05am
Ken, Those Indycar rednecks should consider themselves lucky that Pank has stayed out of their sport or they would all be on a breadline.
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:15am
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Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:25am
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pank says finding a cam cheap that somebody doesn't like and paying to have intake love on two and three reground helps more than anything. Mitch, are you saying each one needs a defferent grind? I read that as #2 and #3 lobes? Your losing me here. ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:27am
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Neat. Attach the video. Someone do the math. 9.8 MPH in 2nd gear with 38 inch tires = how many RPM?? So let me restate my previous post: Single digit MPH for $15,000.00. Where do we sign up?? |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:33am
| Larry call pan key 4two three7794425 he says as long as nitwits are on here I can't say anything else |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:40am
Larry, Decoded that means Oops, I have BSed myself into a corner and must go read some more on the internet before I can comment.
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:49am
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 5:58pm
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You have an incredible knack for missing the point. 30 years ago I had a WD 45 that bought to pull with. I bought the tractor for $325.00. The engine was assembled by Doc Allis using used 4.125 bore M and W pistons and sleeves from a WD - WC machined to work with the 4.500 inch crank. 240 raging cubic inches that on it's best day it had 73 HP on the M and W dyno. That is what I started pulling with and it was a lot of fun as far as being able to win over and over again without any breakage. The only maintenance ever done was changing the oil, plugs, and points. Now by todays standards it wouldn't be much, but I don't think I had $1000.00 in the whole thing including paint. Your claim of second gear(if that is real and not make believe)is lacking data as usual and doesn't say much. Mine would do that any day of the week in any town at 3500 lbs. with 14.9 X 38 tires. Yes it would complete the run and spin it out - not die. If anyone is dumb enough to give you $15,000.00 cash to work on a W 4 cylinder engine what you product better be good enough to run road gear no matter the weight. I doubt we ever see any video of anything you supposedly build and I doubt you get many takers on your amazing offer.... |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:32pm
| My charts say with a 14.9 x 38 at 1300 RPM equals 4.5 MPH on a std WC chassis. Looks to me like 2831 RPM would get you 9.8 MPH. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:01pm
| Yep it was spinning a little over 1100 rpms then .O'Brien will you post the 175 valve opening and intake closing degrees from the power is knowledge book ? Pankeys is locked up in shop |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:03pm
| Yep it was spinning a little over 1100 rpms then .O'Brien will you post the 175 valve opening and intake closing degrees from the power is knowledge book ? Pankeys is locked up in shop |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:23pm
| Intake opens at 3 degrees BTDC.....Intake closes at 48 degrees ABDC..........Exhaust opens at 38 degrees BBDC......Exhaust closes at 13 degrees ATDC. Actual valve lift is .460" Intake .458" Exhaust. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:39pm
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 4:46am
LOL only question is if it is shear stupidity or pulling chains? either way it is fun to back them towards a corner and watch them squirm. Notice that your 9.8 MPH RPM question was answered by Dr allis at just over 2300 and then Pank comes back with "yup it was turning 1100 RPM?? Yup pank, thats tire slip for ya, LOL Only as usual you got it backwards. All the jiberish does add up in this case, 452 cubes making 50HP because of his pank dream world camshaft. Having to run second gear is totally believable. Hey Pank I have a model A in the shop that has 60 hp and 461 cubes and was built in 1938, LOL You want my cam specs so you can gain 10 HP?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 5:53am
| I keep thinking the Tennessee State Educational system has failed miserably in Reading, Writing and Math ?? |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 6:07am
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Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 7:02am
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lol OK let's try again the engine was turning 4 grand so there was a over 1100 rpms lost due to tire slippage making 9.8 it slowest run to date Look at this, one last post and it's clear as day!! What a Shazam moment that was!! Now it's "tire slippage to explain the 1100 rpm statements none of us could understand. Go big or go home Mitch, how much power do you lose going through the gear box? and how much might you save by running direct (that would be fourth gear Pank, down and to the right, just so you don't get confused about where to find it). Just a little food for thought, that may help you out some.
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 7:52am
Thank you for enforcing my point. Now I've measured a bunch of stock cams to see any difference. Its wrote down in a book I keep at the shop. What I found was 112-113 intake centerline. Just going from memory here, but I think the .050" duration numbers were about 176* or so. Now let's do the old trick of taking a stock cam and advancing it 1 tooth. Well our intake centerline now becomes 99-100* atdc, or the intake closing point moves from 48* abdc to about 35* abdc. What happens? The engine makes noticeably more power. You want to close the intake valve 115 abdc........I do hope you realize that that thing called the piston is moving up in the bore and has already passed the half way point, it's moving rapidly and slowing down. Hoping to finally compress some of the air you have blown back out the intake tract......just think of the other cylinder paired on that port fighting for a breath while the air has stalled and reversed direction. Good luck goof troop. Make sure to show us a video and let us know what events you will be at. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 8:30am
| Marty advancing the intake caused your exhaust duration to increase over 20 degrees in duration |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 8:38am
Saved.....the duration doesn't increase 20 degrees by advancing or retarding the cam you nitwit. When the valve events happen change . Dang boy, you don't know the basics. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: cranky
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 8:38am
| what the hell are you talking about? moving the cam made the lobes swell up ? |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:00am
| Any can grinder will tell you you need a different can if you advance it 12 degrees . if you reground that can held the 112 cl the new can to have the same ivo ivc would have 255 degrees intake duration at the same lifter rise as it was at 230 degrees duration . any degree you advance the centerline to adds to the ivo and ivc evo and evc at that lifter rise valve events are known at. Its Palin and simple increase stroke increases piston speed and length of cylinder given that anyone can see you need more duration from the same head and valve to fill cylinder . |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:24am
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Can grinder. Not we are changing the profile of what we put over the muffler when it rains... The duration doesn't change when you advance or retard the cam. Everybody knows that. Pank uses a framing square to measure bore sizes. I assume he uses a sun dial to degree camshafts. That might be where the confusion begins. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:25am
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Always a fun read when pank gets on here..... I'm still wondering who would spend 15 grand to go 10mph on a WD lol. ------------- Making A living everyday farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:53am
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:57am
| ICL is the key to getting around all nelsons issues with duration and siameese ports. When one advances the ICL he is increasing is dcr back closer to his original scr but there is a point where you advance the ICL and loose dcr to find that point you would have to use degree bushings like Pankey does go advance 2 ,4,6,8 and read compression tester each time then advance can one tooth for 12 degrees and start using 2,4,6,8 degree bushing to reduce the ICL . There is also a point where duration will increase dcr by giving the valves correct time to stay open to fill the cylinder and cylinder depression come back to atmospheric. There is also a time duration will reduce cranking compression dcr by closing intake valve while cylinder is still below atmospheric pressure under depression in a vacuum . |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 10:30am
You do realize you will have to retard the cam to a 117* atdc intake centerline......for these specs to be true. You won't get the chain tight. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 10:35am
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 10:38am
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 10:47am
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Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 1:33pm
Can't tell if this special Olympian failee is trying to say bump or dumb, the latter he happens to be speaking of himself ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 10 May 2015 at 8:40pm
| By the way Marty we have to assume that the allis 230 duration valve events is at .050 since it was probably read in a block verses cam Dr. Its really hard to read .006 rise in a block after all the valve lash was 14-16 so it had to be read at higher than lash |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 10 May 2015 at 8:48pm
| Larry the cam you have has less than 230 lift .You can see this right awayif you look at the heel then rotate the cam you will see where the lifter rises up the lash ramp then drops off in a valley where lash opens back up then starts closing and rising looks a lot like the ramp cranky shows in the 175 can specs topic. If you believe a engine and a air compressor are the same you will love that cam it has -5 overlap . Pankey said he hated it worse can he ever had cause he builds engine not air compressors |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 6:35am
Only in worn out parts and your little dream world does a cam grind start to lift, go back down and then lift again,,,,
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Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 7:12am
So are you telling me that the Barney cam you traded to me is a junk piece? ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 7:31am
| The A-C 175 cam specs I have provided are directly taken from the Official A-C Service Manual. They refer to the info as valve timing. There is zero reference to .050" of anything. I believe it is actual valve opening and closing with the valve lash adjusted to specs. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 7:48am
| The cam Pankey traded Larry came from the late jt Richardson it was the smallest cam of the two grinds . If you are of the believe that you should close the intake valve at bdc you will love it . If your of the belief that you need overlap cause air has momentum and can fill the cylinder even with piston rising then you will hate it. Tom yes I knew as well as Pankey that the valve events but with a little math it can be figured and if degreeing a cam in block its easier to measure events at .050 so we assume its .050 knowing that it would be greater than the actual valve lash . Only way Pankey would know for sure is to can Dr. A actual 175 cam and the only person who has one is you. |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 8:02am
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Maybe I should find a Cam doctor local and see what he says. Butch, does Fowler have one? I think I need to call Barney and talk to him too. Might answer a few questions ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 8:15am
| Larry who spec the cam you traded to Mitch since you know who spec the cam he traded you . Call barney I think you'll find he likes overlap .however we know nelson doesn't cause he was bragging about recamming a motor barney had done with his camshaft instead of barns . after all nelson gone he got the info on ICL so now he can follow in Pankey footsteps |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 8:52am
| Its a great cam Pankey says if you have stock stroke and use a 8.5 inch long rod |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 9:25am
A local guy speced that cam and to talk to him, we need to dig him up. He may not say much though. ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 9:53am
How does the exhaust duration increase? You edited the post, so you put your best thought into this......exhaust timing events change, but explain how the duration changes ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 11 May 2015 at 10:01am
I don't suppose it would do any good to explain the asymmetrical lobe pattern i put in would it. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |