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jaybmiller 
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24644
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 Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 12:19pm |
whew... glad that those pipes are PEX !, sigh of releaf... My weater softener is an 'on demand' style... regens based on actual water uages NOT a 'time clock'. I don't go though mush salt... my 'salty' water to the weeping tile bed.. I was going to plumb it out to a 'drywell', sigh , that was , um, ahh.....20-25-30 years ago.... maybe, one day.... Interesting note, plans for new house next door , say on plans....'NOT to have water softener drain plumbed into septic tank'... You can usually 'dial in' the amount of salt. maybe just reduce by 25%, see what happens to 'soapy hair test' , lotsa bubbles, reduce some more...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33850
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 2:09pm |
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Our softener, Laundry and Kitchen Sink discharges go to a Gray Water Drain field, no need for septic when put bleach and salt down that drain, all biologics DIE in that trench/French Drain
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modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8672
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Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 4:02pm |
 plummerscarin wrote:
Not entirely sure which way to turn for slowest setting. You should be be able to hear the difference from one extreme to the other. Grundfos has low volume recirc pumps for this application. Check model number UP10-16. Also check out Laing E1. They’re imported but I have installed a number of them with no issues. They have a timer attachment available that is 24hr programmable. |
Epilogue: Went on a quest and found this 2 or 3 gpm pump at a local plumbing supply. If you think $320 is pricey for that pump, I'd agree with you. They also agreed existing 17 gpm pump was running way too much volume. Should have been on a large commercial or industrial site.
Anyway, swapped out pump, plus all the old patched up pex and copper plumbing with new type L copper, turned it on and it started cooking. Takes nearly 90 seconds to make the loop, but even that low flow is plenty to deliver instant hot water.
So thanks for the helping solve my problem! At least one thing we talked about ended right this year. 
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Pat the Plumber CIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Springfield,Il
Points: 4930
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Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 9:14pm |
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Do not believe that pump is designed for potable water . Bits of cast iron are washing down line reacting with the copper. Need a Grundfos UP10 - 16 . A lot more expensive but brass body. Also believe it is installed upside down. Not sure on flow but should flow to bottom of heater. That pump is designed for circulating water for heating not potable water.
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You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails
1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8672
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Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 12:58pm |
Pat the Plumber CIL wrote:
Do not believe that pump is designed for potable water . Bits of cast iron are washing down line reacting with the copper. Need a Grundfos UP10 - 16 . A lot more expensive but brass body. Also believe it is installed upside down. Not sure on flow but should flow to bottom of heater. That pump is designed for circulating water for heating not potable water. |
On the bits of cast iron, that was confirmed when I starting purging air from the hot water lines. Bathtub in guest bath that rarely gets used, dumped a bunch of what looked like fine iron particles, plus some pink water, which may have been rust forming in the line leading to that faucet.
So I'd agree.....between the high volume pump, thinner type M copper lines, and possible corrosion from mixing metals, that whole thing was a mess. Would be interesting to know what the thinking was of the guy who installed it. Was like that when we bought the place. Been trouble the whole time we have been here.
We did replace with the Grundfos UP10-16 pump with brass body. Is working well.
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plummerscarin
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Location: ia
Points: 3901
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Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 6:29pm |
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My guess would be price first. Glad your system is working well
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41978
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Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 11:59pm |
Seems rather than a timer or along with a timer a heat sensing thermostatic switch could be added so it would turn on at some low temp and turn off when hot water is sensed on line temp equaling water at desired heal content in the return line .
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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plummerscarin
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Location: ia
Points: 3901
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Posted: 10 Jan 2021 at 8:31am |
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Laing has that type you mentioned. I put one in for my cousin a couple weeks ago. It's a point use type. Went in cabinet under kitchen sink where there is a 120v outlet already. Has 24hr timer as well as temp sensor. He loves it. It works by pulling hot water from the hot side and sending to the cold side back to water heater and shuts when temp reaches 95 degrees. Granted you might have to wait a bit for cold water to fill a drinking glass but for his purpose it works great and is planning to get another for a vacation home.
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modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8672
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Posted: 10 Jan 2021 at 11:47am |
Took me a while to wrap my head around that one, but can see how it would work. A way to graft a hot water circulation system onto a house that was not plumbed for one when built. But other than that, can't see the advantage. Pump on timer or temp sensor would work either way.
This house, which was plumbed for the circulation system has a first level loop that goes to all hot water faucets on the ground level. Two bathtubs, two bathroom vanities, plus kitchen. Instant hot water to all.
But now that this one is working, we are finding the same issue with the warm cold water. Cold water lines apparently plumbed parallel and close to hot water lines, which despite being insulated, over time will still warm the slab they are running through. So hot water is circulating, but cold water is stagnant until used, so instead of staying cold, cold water in the line is being warmed to slab temp, just as a stagnant hot water line would get cold.
What I have discovered, however, is how pleasantly warm it is to be standing on the section of floor where those lines run.
This is the first slab on grade house I've ever lived in, and I must admit, I'm not a fan. But if I was going to build one, it would be great to utilize the slab with a hot water radiant heat system.
Edited by modirt - 10 Jan 2021 at 12:27pm
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41978
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Posted: 10 Jan 2021 at 2:14pm |
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they also make a small point of use hot water heater one can install under a sink and runs on 110 v - friend has on in her kitchen so has instant hot water . Have thought about one of them .
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33850
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Posted: 10 Jan 2021 at 3:26pm |
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Put in a Keep Warm loop in our Hot Water system when built, Laing pump and timer, can adjust for Water temp on return side for shutdown. Insulated the Outbound pipe and return leg, runs 1/3 the time as uninsulated. Cool water when first turn on shower or bath faucets, takes but moments and already warm, at temp less than a minute in either upstairs bath.
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Sallymilr
Bronze Level
Joined: 22 Apr 2021
Location: UK
Points: 1
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Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 4:40am |
I am not so strong at drain blockages. From my point of view, I believe that these are the worst plumbing issues that can appear. I got a massive headache due to this problem. I tried to solve it with my own hands but with no chance. So, I decided to call the guys from one of the best plumbing services in Sydney. They sent me a team of experts that resolved all the questions regarding plumbing needs. I am very thankful to these guys because they saved me from big wastes. Also, they held a lot of my time.
Edited by Sallymilr - 26 Apr 2021 at 9:03am
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plummerscarin
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Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Location: ia
Points: 3901
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Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 6:44am |
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The worst is a clogged urinal drain. That's all I got to about that
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joannsabki
Bronze Level
Joined: 08 Sep 2021
Location: UK
Points: 1
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Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 9:41am |
Oh, I've never been able to do a job with pipes. I always called Emergency plumbing because once I tried to make a pipe myself, I then had the floor of the house in the water. Since then, I no longer do plumbing. And apparently, you have the same situation, haha. Friend, don't worry so much. In my opinion, it is better to call professionals and let them deal with such things. Yes, you will have to pay money, but at the same time, you save your time and nerves. Well, everyone has their own. I just expressed my opinion on this matter, and I hope someone shares my opinion here.
Edited by joannsabki - 29 Sep 2021 at 4:21pm
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