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lessersivad 
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 Topic: New to me HD5G
Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 6:50pm |
This (I guess) is sort of my introduction post (plus a few questions).
This is my first ownership of any sort of 'heavy' equipment. I've been doing my own mechanical, body, fabricating work for the past 40+ years. I'm no expert or professional but I manage to get by and have helped out quite a few people over the years.
So I just purchased an HD5G (serial # HD5G 7878) and had it transported by a good friend of mine earlier today.
It didn't start when I bought it from the scrap yard (for a little more than scrap price) so after unloading from the trailer, I started in.
When I first looked at it before purchase I noticed one of the battery terminals was COMPLETELY melted. Meh, wasn't too concerned about that.
So the first thing I did was swap out a different battery cable clamp and connected a different ground cable. Next came a new battery.
Upon ATTEMPTING to connect the new battery I got one heck of a large spark and what sounded like the starter possibly trying to engage WITHOUT me pushing on the starter rod. I disconnected both cables and started investigating.
Checking the positive cable to chassis ground came up as a dead short. So after much fumbling around removing the cable from the starter switch I tested again (sort of suspecting the cable had wore thru). No continuity to chassis ground so my next step is to ATTEMPT the removal of the starter switch.
So now the questions.....
1) I've tried searching with no success for a replacement starter in case this one is beyond repair. Where MIGHT I find one and....
2) are ALL of the '71' series starters the same (with the exception of rotation)??
3) Could someone please point me in the right direction as to where I MIGHT be able to find out approx. year based on the serial # ???
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to any responses.
Russ
Edited by lessersivad - 24 Oct 2020 at 9:07pm
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JohnColo
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Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 9:43pm |
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Welcome to the Forum! Although I can't help you, I know there are several members who can answer your questions and give more advice once you get past the starter problem.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 5:14am |
Per Wendell's book, its a 1950. Re the starter issue, has someone monkeyed around with battery polarity? If not, check for a hung solenoid switch, on the starter, if so equipped. Also could be an internal short in the winding of the starter... 
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lessersivad
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 7:03am |
Thanks Dave for the year info.
You make reference to 'Wendell's book'....
Please excuse my ignorance but is that some sort of 'must have' book that's available??
In regards to the battery polarity....
Someone previous to me had installed 2, 31 series batteries hooked up like the original 6 volt batteries (for a total of 24 volts)!!!
After reading the crawler was originally equipped with (2) 6 volt batteries (12 volts), I isolated the 2nd battery out of the circuit and installed a new single 31 series in the left hand battery box. I hooked it up as negative ground.
After seeing how a previous party had hooked up the batteries (and melted a battery terminal completely, along with the terminal clamp) I was pretty leery of hooking up the new one. I simply 'brushed' the negative terminal with the cable and got one heck of a spark along with what sounded like the starter attempting to engage. (Could have simply been the sound of me evacuating my bowels into my pants with the sudden arc).... 
I suspect the solenoid switch as you mentioned and will attempt removal later today (the lift arms for the bucket have proven to be 'fun' to try to work around).
IF it turns out to be the starter itself is the problem and it cannot be repaired, is there a source for a replacement??
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DiyDave
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 7:44am |
I mis-spelled his name, oops. Anyway here's a link to his book, this is the paperback version:
As to the starter, it might be best, to google starter rebuilders, in your area. Pretty sure detroit starters are not too hard to find. Main difficulty may be in finding a rebuilder, local to you, as they are becoming a dying breed...
Since this is a detroit, a word of caution, if the motor has sat for a long time, they have been known to have the injection rack freeze or lock up. It would behoove you to have someone who knows these motors well have a look, or at least research the inspection procedure, so you know how it is supposed to move. At bare minimum, you need to have a flat plate object handy, so that you can stop a runaway engine, by cutting off the air to the intake... 
Edited by DiyDave - 25 Oct 2020 at 7:52am
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lessersivad
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 8:39am |
Thanks for the link. May have to order a copy.
There IS a local guy that USED to rebuild starters BUT I think he has 'officially' retired.
Plans are to remove the mechanical starter switch and see what MAY be the issue. Then (if need be) remove the starter and play 'Leonard Nimoy, In Search Of' for a rebuilder IF the local gentleman IS officially retired.
As for the steel 'plate'... would this be used in lieu of, or in conjunction with the 'flap' in the intake tube?? I thought the 'flap' pretty much did what a 'plate' would do... I WILL however have a plate near by.
My 'plan' is to see IF the engine will turn over first with the fuel and flap in the 'shut down' position. I have NO idea how long or where this crawler was sitting.
IF it rolls over then I was planning on removing the valve cover and check clearances and rack movement.
Still would like to find a source for a starter IF it comes to that.
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Ages Cat
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:38pm |
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Check with Doug @Northern Tractor in Oseo, MN. He has a lot of HD5 parts in his inventory.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
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lessersivad
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 6:21pm |
Well just a quick update.....
FINALLY got the manual starter contact removed. The inner-most screw was 'fun' to get at. Planning on replacing the 'flat head' screws with socket head (Allen head) screws.
I also made contact using the starter cable against the 'buss bar' on top of the starter. No big arc and the starter motor spun. So I then manually held the arm so the drive would engage. Engine cranks over so I'm pretty happy about that.
Also 'ohmed out' the manual push button, no shorts that I can tell. There was however upon removal from the starter, a small chuck of the square 'contact pad' off to the one side. I find it hard to believe THAT was causing a dead short, but I could be wrong.
So being the square contact pad has some pretty nasty wear to it, I'll get a new one and go from there.
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lessersivad
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Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 6:23pm |
Thanks for the tip Ages.
Being this is a whole new ballgame for me, any and all resources are appreciated.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:54pm |
 lessersivad wrote:
Well just a quick update.....
FINALLY got the manual starter contact removed. The inner-most screw was 'fun' to get at. Planning on replacing the 'flat head' screws with socket head (Allen head) screws.
I also made contact using the starter cable against the 'buss bar' on top of the starter. No big arc and the starter motor spun. So I then manually held the arm so the drive would engage. Engine cranks over so I'm pretty happy about that.
Also 'ohmed out' the manual push button, no shorts that I can tell. There was however upon removal from the starter, a small chuck of the square 'contact pad' off to the one side. I find it hard to believe THAT was causing a dead short, but I could be wrong.
So being the square contact pad has some pretty nasty wear to it, I'll get a new one and go from there. |
As I'm sure you know, but Ill say it anyway, it's not the chunk that is missing that can be the problem, it's where that chunk ran off to and got stuck!
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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lessersivad
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Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 6:16am |
As I'm sure you know, but Ill say it anyway, it's not the chunk that is missing that can be the problem, it's where that chunk ran off to and got stuck! [/QUOTE]
Yup. Don't know for sure WHERE the 'chunk' was before removing the switch. New one should be here today.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 30 Oct 2020 at 6:25pm |
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After rebuilding my starter a couple times - I replaced it with a M42 starter from a 71 series Detroit - Solenoid engagement rather than foot rod , so key start now which also goes with the 10SI alternator for charging - One 750 Amp 12 volt battery works fine on machine.
Used #2 welding cable for lead and also a separate lead to ground as the M42 has a ground stud on it .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 3:53am |
The AC 45 graders used the Dyer drive ancestor of the M 40/M42 series starters. They have a short ground lead from that ground stud on the starter to the chassis ground point.
My autoelectrician says you do not use the starter stud as a common ground
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lessersivad
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Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:24am |
Thanks for all the feedback on the starter system.
I received the new starter switch earlier this week. Unfortunately the package had been opened and the insulator pieces were missing. Contacted the supplier and another arrived yesterday.
Don't know if I'll get much done this weekend as there is a birthday party scheduled for my grandsons today and Sunday's weather doesn't look too promising.
Seriously thinking about getting a temporary 'garage tent' so I can at least be out of the wind..... LOL.
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lessersivad
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Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 7:20pm |
So today I had a chance to do some more work on it.
Got the replacement starter switch installed, removed the hood and valve cover to check the rack. Everything was free moving. (Have not checked the valve clearance or 'timed' the injectors yet).
Made sure the 'flap' closed on the intake side, then cranked it over with the control in 'shut down' mode. Built some oil pressure while cranking so pushed the control in and cranked for a bit and it started right up. Pretty happy about that!!!
Had to add approx 10 gallons of hydraulic oil to get the bucket to raise and tilt. Moved it forward and reverse and was able to turn left but not to the right. May have to 'poke it with a stick' to see what may be the issue.
Overall (so far) I'm pretty pleased with the 'new to me' project.
Edited by lessersivad - 04 Nov 2020 at 7:22pm
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Ray54
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:14am |
Great news that you have it running.
Hopefully adjustment of the linkage will fix you up. Best to find the operaters book unless you have been around crawlers of this vintage before. But generally if the poor things sit to long the plates in the steering clutch rust together. Sometimes operating it will break them loose. I have never been that lucky yet, but I always hope and pray. As I have a old Cat D6 that has been less than 2 years but will only turn one way. It was way out of a adjustment and have not run it again yet.
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lessersivad
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Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 3:44am |
Ray54 wrote:
Great news that you have it running.
Hopefully adjustment of the linkage will fix you up. Best to find the operaters book unless you have been around crawlers of this vintage before. But generally if the poor things sit to long the plates in the steering clutch rust together. Sometimes operating it will break them loose. I have never been that lucky yet, but I always hope and pray. As I have a old Cat D6 that has been less than 2 years but will only turn one way. It was way out of a adjustment and have not run it again yet.
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I haven't checked adjustment of the linkage as of yet. I have the operators manual, parts manual, and the Tracto-shovel manual.
As of yesterday, I pulled the right turn lever back and placed a ratchet strap on it to hold it there (disengaged).
I've had success in the past using the same method to 'unstick' tractor clutches so MAYBE it will work. Won't know for sure for a few days as my work schedule doesn't give me a lot of time to tinker with it (unless I take time off like I did the past couple of days).
I operated it yesterday in hopes it would break free. Kind of a limited area where I had it dropped off and I really don't want to take it too far away from where it's sitting as it would make for a longer 'hike' to the tool box. 
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dadsdozerhd5b
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Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 2:45pm |
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Any update? Interesting read.
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HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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lessersivad
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Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 3:30pm |
dadsdozerhd5b wrote:
Any update? Interesting read. |
Nope. It's simply sitting waiting for my to get back to it.
Last Sat. I ended up getting ANOTHER project hauled home (NON-Allis) destined for scrap, and I mean literally scrap (being it was located 1/2 block from the scrap yard).
1975 International 4500B forklift.....
Edited by lessersivad - 03 Jan 2021 at 3:32pm
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Ray54
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Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 6:30pm |
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That is the type of fork lift that would be real handy.
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lessersivad
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Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 8:17pm |
Ray54 wrote:
That is the type of fork lift that would be real handy. |
That's what I was thinking when I received the pic from the owner.
With the forklift AND the HD5 I might actually be able to at least start on another building to house them and a small shop to work in.
My current garage is filled with an S-10 project I've been working on since April and to do anything else requires 'out in the driveway' repairs. Which as I've gotten older, doesn't appeal to me all that much.
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