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wjohn 
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 Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 5:57pm |
 Model 70 wrote:
262 gas. Plenty of power. I pull a round baler with one of mine |
The gas version of that same 262 engine would definitely have the power. It will drink gas but would be the easiest swap. I'm not sure what all (air cleaner etc.) you would have to hunt down to swap over from diesel to gas but I know it has been done.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 6:46pm |
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A G-226 engine will not fit (without mods) because the clutch shaft is too short.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 7:00pm |
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When searching for a used cylinder head, you can certainly use one from a newer D-17 series 3 or 4. They would most likely be in better condition than the turbocharged D-19 heads.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 7:37pm |
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D17 heads are certainly being considered. Seems the early ones had the water pump on the head, is that correct? But any of the heads from the engines with the pump on the block would work?
Not that it's even a consideration in this case, but just curious what the issues with the G226 are, since the gas D17's had that motor and I've been under the impression a gas D17 motor would bolt right up (at the bell housing, anyway). Was the G226 that different of an engine in the D17?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 8:51pm |
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As I said, a series 3 or 4 D-17 diesel engine is almost identical to a D-19 engine but without a turbo. The D-17 gas engine (G-226) will bolt right up to the D-19 bell housing. BUT, the clutch shaft inside the bell housing is 1 3/8" too short and will not reach the G-226 flywheel. D-17 tractors have two lengths of clutch shafts...gas (long) or diesel (short). D-19's are all the same....short.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 9:47pm |
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D262 flywheel must be deeper / thicker then. I did notice that the clutch I ordered seems to be unique to the D19. I did try to research repower options on this tractor before we started and did not come up with anything that appeared practical . . . Unless one has unlimited time, deep pockets, is an ace fabricator, and has a small machine shop at his disposal.
There seems to be a bit of a common thread here with "new flagship models": Avoid. I have the same issue with my Massey 85. It's a great tractor, but it was the biggest tractor Massey built in- house when it came out. They only made about 8,000. It shares a common design with other Massey models, but very, very little part interchangeability. Parts are incredibly hard to find. I think I've been working on it for eight years.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 10:02pm |
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It's all about engine family. A D-262 or G-262 interchange with each other when it comes to the flywheel/bell housing area. Same goes for the water pump area.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 8:32am |
Did not some Cockshut tractors come with the same engine???
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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DanWi
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 9:25am |
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All the poor D19's condemned to death with head and gasket problems. We have all this technology now. Multi axis milling. Someone could make a replacement head that overcomes the original problems. Seems like guys spend a ton of money trying to save them. Maybe if they did a small run they could sell for $2500 for a bolt on replacement.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 11:43am |
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I don't think Cockshutt ever had a "G"-262 or "D"-262. We are talking late 1960 and newer. They used the older engines with the water pump on the head I think and I thought the 262 bore/stroke was exclusive to Allis machines.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 1:26pm |
DanWi wrote:
All the poor D19's condemned to death with head and gasket problems. We have all this technology now. Multi axis milling. Someone could make a replacement head that overcomes the original problems. Seems like guys spend a ton of money trying to save them. Maybe if they did a small run they could sell for $2500 for a bolt on replacement. |
you still need to address the sleeve sinking issue. The flange is TINY!!! and no room between cyls to expand
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 3:19pm |
NEVER green wrote:
Did not some Cockshut tractors come with the same engine??? |
Cockshutt used only the 230 (sleeved) in the 40 and 273 (parent bore) in the 50 versions for the 6 cylinder tractors. And the 4 cylinder 153 CID version in the 30 series. When Allis purchased Buda Cockshutt started sourcing engines from other suppliers, including Hercules and Perkins. The 262 was only sold after Allis bought Buda. But the blocks are pretty much interchangeable.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 9:47pm |
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I have wondered if a guy with deep pockets could have custom sleeves made, hybrid between wet sleeve and dry sleeve. The bottom (o-ring area) would be made to OEM specs. The top would be a press fit. I'm no engineer and don't know how viable this idea is, nor what it would cost. And it still doesn't address the weak head.
If I can find a serviceable G262, are there any major hurdles to be aware of in putting one into this tractor? The more I think about this, unless a good head casting can be found, and found soon, I really think that may be the most cost effective way of getting this tractor running again. I get it that they are 'thirsty.' But for a back up tractor, to my way of thinking, spend the extra $100 for fuel every year and get on with life. Sell everything from the diesel that isn't needed and put the money against the cost of the job.
I haven't inquired about any of them, but there do appear to be some G262's floating around out in the salvage world.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 9:52pm |
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Air cleaner and piping are different. Throttle linkage to governor needs some small changes. Other than that, it should be a drop in. Use the gas starter and ring gear and engine backplate.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 9:55pm |
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All of that can be worked through. We'll see what happens next!
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NEVER green
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Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 9:47am |
Kinda a crazy thought... any way to make the gas head a direct injection replacement??
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 2:11pm |
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Probably, with enough $$$ applied. Custom pistons with a Mexican hat bowl would be needed for direct injection/open chamber design. The "hammering" of direct injection (I think) would just help hammer the sleeves (that are nearly lipless) sink into the block faster.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 11:08am |
I have approval to pursue the G262 option. I wish we had done this on Day One. I'm not 100% sure how this will go, but we are currently leaning that direction.
I haven't gone to look at it yet, but there is a "running when pulled" PROPANE 262 out of a D19 in a salvage yard less than an hour from me. I'm aware of another gas D19 fresh salvage job (stuck engine) in the state as well from which necessary parts may be obtainable to convert this back to gas.
Assuming a decent leakdown test, what are everyone's thoughts on leaving the higher compression LP pistons in this engine? Of course, if the pistons are junk, we look for gas pistons.
Rebuilt injectors, "working when pulled" turbo and injection pump, and other engine parts MAY be available for sale once this is completed. Nothing will be sold until the job is DONE. PM me if interested.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 12:31pm |
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If it is truly a factory LPgas engine, the compression ratio is 9.35 to 1. It would require an 89 or 90 octane gasoline to keep from detonating. You cannot retard the timing and make it work. I tried (once).
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 2:11pm |
I have no way of knowing.
The water plumbing to the propane vaporizer unit sure looks cobbled up, but that kind of mess is super common on old tractors anyway. I guess I'll probably call them on it, and if they have no other gassers available I may go and take a look at it in the next day or two.
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 2:21pm |
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Cockshut 50 used the buda 273 which I have heard is dang close to a 262 Allis.
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 2:24pm |
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It's beside the point. I called on it and they already parted it out.
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RedHeeler79
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 3:09pm |
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JC-WI
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 4:35pm |
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Combine engine, need to change governors and maybe carb.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Jordan(OH)
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 6:31pm |
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Would a 230 gas bolt in?
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 10 Mar 2025 at 9:55pm |
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I suspect that a 230, a 262, and a 273 could all be made to work, provided that the D19 front plate, which is built to accommodate the steering unit, could be swapped out.
I think I've found a yard with several F Gleaner G262 engines in varying conditions. I'm waiting to hear back from them regarding if they have a runner or at least a sound core. Governor will need to be worked through, probably front plate too. Thinking if we go this route that I will open it up and do whatever it needs.
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Codger
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Posted: 11 Mar 2025 at 6:43am |
Don't know if any of this will help you or not but a Mack ENDT-866V8 engine is a dynosaur to obtain parts for also. I had a company "Power Bore Sleeves" in Cleveland make a set of liners, and Arias Pistons make pistons for my old engine. Gaskets came from Mack and I had a complete set of bearings. Effingham Regrinding in Effingham, IL reground the camshaft, lifters, and polished the crankshaft. Capitol Machine did the block, rod, and bushings work. The original cylinder heads has already been machined for performance fire rings and a custom set was acquired. I had everything balanced and weight matched before going together. Liner protrusion and head gasket failures were problematic on this engine so the block was slightly modified to both compensate, and alleviate this with the sleeves being rather custom to fit the machined block. I found the sleeve vendor very easy to work with. My uncle was a machinist and he opened the piston pin bores as the piston vendor could not supply the needed dimension. A custom broach was made and the operation went quick.
I've repaired several cylinder heads and blocks over the years with very good success. It has to be done hot before you ever strike an arc and filler selection must be correct along with a lot of weld zone preparation. This is why so damned expensive.
I've never seen one of these heads in the thread off the engine as I'm not from a farming background, but do know through conversation they were troublesome. Dragged a very nice one from a shed last year sold new by the dealership I help out, and it went to somebody in Texas very quickly. It was traded in on a new tractor and supposedly still ran, but I winched it onto a trailer.
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That's All Folks!
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KP4620
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Posted: 11 Mar 2025 at 7:34am |
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I have a good running 262 gas out of a D-19 for sale.I have a text video of it running ,but it is not real clear. This is in southeasten Indiana. Please pm me for more details.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 11 Mar 2025 at 9:04am |
I guess I'll store the information away regarding the custom sleeve & piston suppliers. It's all interesting, but these kinds of jobs became a real albatross when one is trying to run a business. Even when 'money is no object,' money is always an object!
I'm sure the diesel can be successfully repaired to be reliable. I think custom sleeves shrink / press fit to the top of the block bore, with super careful machine work and measuring to keep the sleeve protrusion correct, custom fire rings, an old Victor head gasket or perhaps copper with O-rings for all the coolant passages, ARP studs, and a good serviceable head could make it stay together. $20,000 out the door?? I don't want to admit what I've already quoted the customer, and honestly, at the end of the day, the job will never pay. It is what it is, and I live and learn, I guess.
I may never know the truth on the current head. The first shop said they pressure tested it at 150 degrees and ?? PSI air pressure, no leaks. They told me the valves looked "OK," but I dug deeper when I found out they had never disassembled the head. The valves were worn, some pitted, and some leaking. Second shop said it was visually cracked into the water jacket around one or two of the intake ports and he wouldn't work on it. Called Diesel-cast, spoke to a guy who seemed very knowledgeable about the D262 heads, acted like they were a common repair item. "We can fix it, around $2400." Sent it out, they called me and said the cracks around the energy cells are fatal and they can't fix them. I asked about just leaving those cracks alone, and he said they HAVE to fix them, because they will get huge when they heat it up to weld it. Bear in mind that these cracks are already huge--probably .010" wide. I'm just done with it. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's junk. But it's time to move on.
I want to save these old tractors as much as the rest of you do. For the most part (D19's and a few others excepted!) the tractors (across brands) from this era (mid '50's to mid '60's) were very capable, very well built, and very repairable. They will do everything that the modern compact junk will do, and do it better--just not with as much class and style. When you fix them to use them, I honestly think $10,000 - $15,000 isn't unreasonable at all. Unfortunately, some just aren't worth saving.
I currently have leads on three sources of G262's in various states, from running to core. Something will come together on this tractor. I'll keep this thread alive until it goes home. I hate it when a thread just ends, with no word of how the job ever turned out.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Mar 2025 at 10:51am |
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If you had custom made cylinder sleeves that were .040" or .060" larger O.D. on the upper lip and bored the blocks deck to accept them, there is still the matter of the cylinder heads just aren't a long lived piece of cast iron. The less load the engine is subjected to, the longer the life, but it's a tractor. It is expected to get the snot pulled out of it when plowing. That's what it was made for.
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