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JC-WI 
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 Topic: I'm just a good ole sucker,,,,,,
Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:56am |
DJ wrote in a different thread he started.... just hooking his new post to his old link.
Well,,I had commented on wantin to help a friend out with his forklift but couldn't find the dang thread,,,so,,,here I go again. A
good friend has an older Hyster Model RT100 forklift that he was using
to move some old cars and trks around on his yard and the engine
finally crapped out. I had done a southern engineerin job on the
carburator as it was messing up and we could not locate a kit for it so I
made an "adapter" from the Hyster manifold to a Carter I had laying
around and it worked great till the engine crapped a couple of weeks
ago. The engine in forklift is a 6 cylinder gas Silver Diamond Model
GRD214.
Then he bought what they told him was an
Industrial Ford 6 cylinder that would bolt up to the Hyster
bellhousing,,SOO I tool that engine home and was gonna get it tuned up
and running for him to stick in the forklift. Flash forward,,the engine
is out of a dang Ford Pinto or some such and it was locked up and after 2
weeks of the Acetone/Atf,treatment ,it finally broke loose but it has
ZERO compression,,,rings prolly stuck really good and since it is NOT an
industrial ,,it will not even bolt up to the hyster bellhousing. I
convinced him to either overhaul the Hyster engine or find a used
replacement somewhere. Does anybody here know if any other
engines will interchange since the Hyster's are almost non-existing,,,?
Prolly parts for his are gonna be even harder to find as well,,,,,,
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Ray54
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Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 1:52pm |
 Back at the beginning of this ......  , adventure I was thinking Joe ant that big a sucker. But buying pieces just to start this little mechanical wonder............... ,maybe O'l Joe can be suckered. When the deep pockets guy  thinks this just needs a few bolts moved around,O'l Joe may have to shenanigan Deep Pockets into paying for extras.
I am guessing that the fork truck is still moving so you cannot just get the old bell housing to see for 100% that things fit? Since your in this far I guess you can tell him he needs a new starter for a new engine.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 10:32am |
How's about this one if parts store comes up empty. $33 + $18 to ship.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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desertjoe
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Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 8:35am |
 Thad in AR. wrote:
Joe you can start that motor with just that flat plate. I’ve started many that way. Go to the parts store and see what all 2 bolt starters will bolt up the same. You may then find one easier.
I’m using the 300-6 starter on my 351 w. |
Yeah,,Thad,,that's what I'd really like to do to keep the costs down. I really doubt whatever bell housing I get to match this block is gonna bolt up to the Hyster transmission. I'm gonna go to the parts store this Am see if they have a plate that will bolt to the engine just for mounting the starter,,,,maybe I can float a loan from ole Shameless to buy it,,,,, |
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 5:03am |
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Joe you can start that motor with just that flat plate. I’ve started many that way. Go to the parts store and see what all 2 bolt starters will bolt up the same. You may then find one easier.
I’m using the 300-6 starter on my 351 w.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 10:24pm |
well, if you get it running and it dont fit the Hyster, you can always buy a 77 Maverick and GET ER DONE !!
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 9:44pm |
Hey JC,,the guy I'm doin the work for told me that this engine is susspossed to bolt up to the Hyster bellhousing,,,,? I was just wanting to get a "something" to mount a starter so I can do whats needed to get this engine running.,,,but you got a dang good idea in that I should go take a real close look and get good measurements on the fork lift assembly first.
Hey Chask,,good to see you back,,Pardner ,,,hopin your ailmants are gettin under control,,,,  Yeah,Chask,, I had seen that bell housing on ebay but don't think it would fit as the two upper bolt holes appear to be way too close together than this engine,,, You know,,Steve,,I called the dude today and suggested maybe it be cheeper to just take the Hyster engine out and throw a cheep overhaul kit at the Hyster engine and KNOW everything would fit. THing is,,he was told this Ford was in good running shape (when parked) and he already paid for this engine,,,bout 5 months ago,,,,???
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 2:30pm |
go check the Hyster bell housing, maybe it already has the plate on it that you need... check location of the starter hole too...
YEA... in the end if it has to match up to the HYSTER BELL HOUSING, you might as well get it NOW and check out the fit... TOO late later if it wont fit that housing.
It may not be just a simple bell housing since it has to have a hydraulic pump drive, transmission drive, and steering pump drive ???
Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Aug 2020 at 2:46pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 12:28pm |
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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JC-WI
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 12:25pm |
joe, the block is from a ford maverick, but the yellow is from a different engine bolted on to that block... Head, cover, cleaner, distributor, fan, coil, governor... go check the Hyster bell housing, maybe it already has the plate on it that you need... check location of the starter hole too... maybe get luck and find the flywheel would fit the FM engine?
Governor is used for constant stead power, I don't know if the forklift would need that or not.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 11:43am |
OK,,I got on a Website,,Ford Power Products.com and according to some of those folks,,what I have is a 1977 Ford 200 out of a Maverick,,,, like ole Steve said earlier. The pics I took of the engine are same as what they posted. The smaller of the inline 6 's have the integrated intake manifold on the cylinder head, which this one has, also the water pump is 3 bolts Vs the larger engines which have 4 bolt water pumps. Somebody must of added the belt driven governor on this engine when they decided to use as an industrial application. Gonna remove the governor and prolly save or sell as it is free turning.
What I need now is a bell housing and a starter for that year maverick or granada. I took the flywheel off and am gonna make me a template for the bell housing bolting to start my scrounging in the wrecking yards,,,,anybody got one in their stash,,,???
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JC-WI
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 10:56am |
Well Joe, looks like your getting onfo to some degree...
Truckfarmer, Swathers were one of the applications, think the sprayers were another... and used in wood chippers, generators, etc.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 8:38am |
There were a lot of differences between the Industrial engines and the Automobile engines. One major factor, especially the Starter mounting which you feller's are discussing. I know a lot of Hysters used the F226 or F227 Continental engines which were one tough engine. We had em' at work. Starters bolted to the Bellhousing adapter also if I remember correctly. And boy could they could pick! I think we still have a couple at other District locations. The one we had at our shop was a 1963 H80C. I swear, that thing could pick a building up! LOL! We had some air compressors and wire pullers equipped with the Ford overhead cam motors, (like Pinto/Mustang II) but again, they were a little different in their accessories. Different intakes & Carburetors due to different linkages used for the applications along with Govenors. Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 4:33am |
Thad in AR. wrote:
desertjoe wrote:
Hey JC,,on closer inspection on the two pics,,one looks to have the starter mounting to be part of the bell housing and the other pic has what looks like a plate that fits between the block and the bell housing,,,???
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Lots of Fords mount the starter like that. They have a flat plate between the bell housing and BlocK like pictured. The starter bolts to the bell housing. I’ve started many by just bolting the starter to that plate and bolting the plate to the block with short bolts.
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You know,,Thad,,now that you mentioned that,,,,seems like I remember way back when My Son and I were restoring his 65 Mustang with a 289 and an automatic,,(an ALD, I think) it had a Plate that fit between the block and the tranny and the starter bolted to it,,,,I'll have to admit,,the only'ist thing I used to dislike bout them fords is that they had so dang many different bell housing bolt patterns,,,,not like them Chevys,,,all v8s had same bolt pattern to the bell housing,,,, |
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 8:28pm |
desertjoe wrote:
Hey JC,,on closer inspection on the two pics,,one looks to have the starter mounting to be part of the bell housing and the other pic has what looks like a plate that fits between the block and the bell housing,,,???
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Lots of Fords mount the starter like that. They have a flat plate between the bell housing and BlocK like pictured. The starter bolts to the bell housing. I’ve started many by just bolting the starter to that plate and bolting the plate to the block with short bolts.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 7:51pm |
DJ I think it (the starter) definitely mounts on an adapter casting for the bell housing (clutch/Flywheel housing?), 2 bolts. My question is what mounted on top of that casting, and what is the large appendage hanging below the starter mount
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I am still confident of this;
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Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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desertjoe
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 7:43pm |
Hey JC,,on closer inspection on the two pics,,one looks to have the starter mounting to be part of the bell housing and the other pic has what looks like a plate that fits between the block and the bell housing,,,???
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truckerfarmer
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 10:11pm |
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Just a stab in the dark, but, would that be the same engine used in the Versatile swathers?
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Looking at the past to see the future.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 9:49pm |
yep,,JC,,that sure looks like what I got. Went back outside and re-looked and the right side of this block has the 3 bolt holes kinda in a verticlal orientation that I'm thinking is what the bell housing bolts to,,?. Looks like what I got to locate is the "plate" that mounts the starter,,can't tell if that is a 2 bolt starter or a 3 bolt starter,,?? Plus a bellhousing, so I can see what else it is going to need to start and run,,,but RUN it will,,!!!!
Is there any indication that the engine is an industrial model or maybe just one scrounged out of a mavrick car,,?? The belt driven governor makes me think industrial but,,,,,?? Many Thanks for your help, JC,, I LOVE projects like this but they sure keep me from those I should be working on,,,,,GRRrrrrrrr,,,,
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JC-WI
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 9:28pm |
DJ, your in luck, I can give you a visual... asbra~KaDABRA!.. PRESTO!
Bonus...
Hope this helps.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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desertjoe
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 7:38pm |
Yeah,,JC,,I figured that but there is NO cut out or "relief" on the block like most others I've seen,,,, And NO!!,, Chask there ain't no crank start,,,,I done looked,,,, Kinda weird there ain't a place for a starter,,tho,,,I cleaned and re checked on the btm of the block back there and there are NO threaded bolt holes on the ears of the block,,,,on either side ,,,so ,,WTH,,??
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JC-WI
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 6:51pm |
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Starter was prolly mounted on the bell housing plate adapter.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 2:06pm |
Hand Crank Start Joe.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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desertjoe
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 9:04am |
Hey Thanks, Thad,,It does have the 5 freeze plugs on right side of block. It does have a belt driven "Pierce Cove" governor so is prolly an industrial engine,,?? What is puzzling me is where did they mount the starter? It must be mounted way down low on the bell housing as there are no bolt holes on the block that I see,,,?? Fact is there is not a "relief" on either side of the block for the starter,,,?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 8:51am |
the BLOCK number D7B should be 1970 vintage, 77 actual year, and put in a Maverick... In 1977 i think the 200 was the only 6 cyl engine available for the maverick.
If it was for an industrial version, the letter "B" would have been a "J" or other ??
You would think a BLOCK was BLOCK... why a different casting for a car / truck / tractor ?? maybe the distributor hole / etc ??
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Aug 2020 at 8:53am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 7:25am |
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144 and 170 have 3 freeze plugs visible below the exhaust manifold and 200 and 250 have 5.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 7:14am |
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The 144 170 200 except late ones and 250 had their own unique bolt pattern
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 7:10am |
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Joe let me do some digging. Visually a 170 and 200 are the same. That’s what the pics appear to be.
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 6:54am |
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I worked at Heathercrest Farms when I was in high school a few yrs after, they had a Ford skid steer, that everybody there claimed the engine was the same block as what was used in a Pinto.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 1:18am |
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you can see it used to be blue, and was repainted. that is prolly a car engine, other engines that went into machinery/farm equip were industrial engines. had a Haggie high boy sprayer once with a Chrysler slant 6, when i had to get parts (starter) i found out they were different from a vehicle engine, it was an industrial engine. i then learned that most all engines werte leke that...they looked the same, but were very different. looks like your "friend" got "honked"!
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