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CTuckerNWIL 
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 Topic: I have a vee belt pulley question
Posted: 07 May 2020 at 10:31am |
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My daughters POS Cub Cadet, a 2006 model, had a new transmission drive belt last spring. The other day, after patching up her totally junk deck and putting a new starter on it so she could use it, she got almost done mowing the first time this year, and the drive belt derailed and got kinda shredded.
I have looked over everything, and the only problem I see, is the 2 idler vee pulleys on the drive belt, are shiney in the very bottom.
If the tin pulley has spread a bit, letting the belt bottom on the idler, can that cause premature wear on the belt? Seems to be the only thing wrong with the whole set up, that I can see, anyway.
I sure wish the guys that designed this POS had to wrench on them before the drawings could be OK'ed for production.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 08 May 2020 at 11:50am
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:30am |
06 'Cub Cadet' is really an MTD unit... 'junk deck'..... from NOT cleaning out the deck after every use ??? It's easy to get a stick or two tossed onto the top of the deck, and then , bam...crunch.. the pulleys are misaligned so belts get tossed off or shreaded. I see that every year from neighbours abusing their riders.... there's also a 'sequence of steps' to properly put deck onto the rider and ensure things are correct. I hear a lot of people trash MTD but I've got a 20 year old one that runs/cuts fine. The biggest complaint about decks rotting out can be solved by properly cleaning them. Cutting wet grass then grabbing a beer is NOT kind to decks. being Cub Cadet..they should have greasable spindle bearings BTW. Every MTD Cub I've seen has them...
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:42am |
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I didn't come here to knock MTD. I just wanted to know if the tin pulley could be causing the belt problem, by letting it run in the bottom instead of on the Vee side. There is nothing wrong with the alignment or the main engine pulley or Hydro-drive pulley.
Junk, because most of the welds only penetrated one of the two pieces being welded. No, the deck isn't rusted out. One front gauge wheel is still missing, along with the bracket it was mounted to, which had a piss poor weld to the deck.
No problem with MTD. I have a 1990 MTD Ranch King that mowed my yard for 12 years. It will still mow, but the front axle pivot is about to drop off.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 07 May 2020 at 1:43pm |
YES... a belt can not run on the bottom.. It must run on the SIDES.......... also there are belts that are 7/16 wide, and 1/2 inch wide, and bigger....... I would check for PROPER belt size.. You might be able to get a WIDER belt, the same length.
If your SURE the belt is proper, then YES you need new pulleys.. bottom can NOT TOUCH.
Edited by steve(ill) - 07 May 2020 at 1:52pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dave in PA
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Posted: 07 May 2020 at 3:41pm |
I agree with the belt width. Some mowers take a 1/2" wide and some go with a 5/8" The thinner would let it ride down in the groove deeper, causing issues.
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Walker
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Posted: 07 May 2020 at 6:36pm |
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Pullies pull from the sides = wrong width belt. Listen to Steve.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 6:00am |
Hmm.. does this Cub have a 4-pulley deck? V-pulley on the blades, and two 'wide-flat' pulleys where the BACK of the belt rides against ? Also is it E-pto or manual engage, pretty sure that setup is different too...
I'll look at mine today, and see where it rides...haven't needed to cut grass yet..dang 30*F here..brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Tbone95
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 7:44am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
Hmm.. does this Cub have a 4-pulley deck? V-pulley on the blades, and two 'wide-flat' pulleys where the BACK of the belt rides against ? Also is it E-pto or manual engage, pretty sure that setup is different too...
I'll look at mine today, and see where it rides...haven't needed to cut grass yet..dang 30*F here..brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jay
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Well, I take him at his word he knows the difference between a flat idler and a vee idler: "and the only problem I see, is the 2 idler vee pulleys on the drive belt, are shiney in the very bottom"
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 8:27am |
hmm, I just looked at my Cub and it has V=pulleys on the spindles and two 'flat' pulleys on the deck,so the belt kinda looks like a 'T', with the 'power' coming from a V-pulley about under my butt. The 1/2" (?) 'deck' belt is centered on the flat pulleys, so it's a two belt system, a deck belt and a drive belt.
So now I'm confused(easier the older I get ) as to WHICH deck he has.... There's a 3 pulley setup, but that only has 3 V-pulleys( engine + 2 spindles ) so a one belt version.
Hopefully he'll post which Cub model he has AND the deck size. There's yet another version 42" vs 46" decks....
Sigh....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 11:43am |
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Jay, I'm working on replacing the Hydro(transmission) drive belt. The deck belt is no problem.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 11:46am |
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GT1554 Cub Cadet hydro drive belt is an A belt, 79 inches long. The belt is NOT the wrong width. It rides in the drive and driven pulleys fine The problem is with the idler pulleys, mounted to the bottom of the tractor. And it has nothing to do with the deck. It is the DRIVE belt to the hydra drive.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 08 May 2020 at 11:47am
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 1:20pm |
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If the belt bottoms out on the pulleys, then the pulleys are BAD.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 4:13pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
If the belt bottoms out on the pulleys, then the pulleys are BAD. |
That's what I'm thinking too. Both pulleys are stamped tin, and replacements cost as much as a good cast iron pulley. 
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 4:28pm |
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I would think something has CHANGED in the last 14 years ? Surely the pulley was not like that to start with ? Did they just wear out or are the two side bolted together and the bolts loose ?? Maybe they FLEX too much and the side BENT ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 08 May 2020 at 8:55pm |
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My bet is the thin pulleys have indeed worn and weakened and spread out a little.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 09 May 2020 at 5:27am |
OK, yeesh, now I gotta go out in the FREEZING COLD and look at the drive belt setup. I know it zigs and zags around one V pulley then a flat one. To get the belt to ride in the center of the flat pulley, you can put a washer or two under the V pulley next to it. That'll raise the belt a wee bit. ANY chance the drive pulleys on the motor have slid down ? There's a difference in manual vs EPTO pulleys and both shaft and pulleys have to be super clean to be sure they get snugged UP to the engine. Ther's also a spacer that goes on before the pulleys. Usually ALL them parts are rust/aged welded onto the crankshaft..a MAJOR PITFA to free up and not cost $100 for new parts.
It only takes 3-4 big twigs to get tossed into the pulleys and belt to 'rearrange the geometry'. I've seen that happen a few times. I raise the front end up real high using chainhoist/Ibeam in garage as you need very good access and light to SEE whats going on.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:11am |
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I don't think the motor pulley has moved since assembly and it certainly won't move now. It seems to have a decent vee left with out too much wear. It has the electric clutch, which came right off after removing the bolt.
I wonder about the quality of the belt that was put on last year. It kinda looks like any old standard vee belt and I can't find a part number on it.
I have a new kevlar belt to put on, and finally decided to order the 2 idler pulleys for the tensioning mess . If you lay the new belt over the old idler pulley, it only touches the bottom, I hope the new pulleys have some side contact.
When I get the new idlers and the plastic foot pedal bushings, it's going back together, hopefully before we need to rake and bale the yard.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 09 May 2020 at 6:11am
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:29am |
yeah.. 'regular' V belts are not good for mowers... It's the 'back bending' around the flat pulleys that probably do them in. kevlar are more flexible and better for 'shock', like when the EPTO is turned on. My grass up here is all WHITE, again, arrrrrgh.....and NOT just a dusting.... grrrrrrrr I use a big clamp to keep the clutch pedal down while fishing the new belt on. First ,real carefully around the Hydro fan onto pulley, then engine pulley, then zig zag in the middle.
Epto units always come off, it's the drive pulley that can be 'fun'. it HAS to come of before you pull the engine as usually the deck hole is toooooo small.
I'm pretty sure I 'shimmed' either the house rider Cub or the 'tough rider' MTD, one of them , after a few 1/2" twigs 'magically' nested in the tensioner pulleys area....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:03am |
One of the idler pulleys had an oversized hex nut,between it and the mounting point. I'll check out alignment of the pulley when I put it back together. The fan is nowhere to be seen, and looks like it's been gone for some time. I haven't tried to get that hydro pulley off yet. Seems to be good amount of room to get to it with the deck off and the belt out of the way. Some guy on youtube shows clamping a vice grip to that pulley to hold it while you loosen the nut. I don't know why you couldn't put the old belt around it, and vice grip the belt together tight, to hold it from spinning. My brother has 2 similar Cubs, and said he dropped the hydro unit out to work on the one that was given to him. I'm gonna tell her to just mow as much as she can in a half hour and let it cool off for a good bit, before finishing the yard. 
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ac fleet
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Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:11pm |
The newer belts are made thinner than specs. and the poor quality thin tin chimna pulleys used now days don't last very long. You might take the pulleys off and press them back to original "A belt" specs. but check your new belt to see if its actually "A" width. A few thousandths off will cause it to run in the bottom of the pulley. I would look for steel or cast pulleys to replace the tin ones.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:26pm |
been buying belts at farm supply store (Fleet farm) and are DACO blue back belts , went ot a 5/8 belt to drive mower deck from stock 1/2" that Swisher used , seems to last longer but when spindle bearing goes bad it smokes either size belt quickly so now have a 10'ack of bearings so have replacements ready .
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 10 May 2020 at 4:49pm |
I KNOW some JD riders will selfdestruct when the fan isn't there. Any hydro unit needs cooling...so fan is important as well as a CLEAN case. When they overheat, some oil ,as vapour, is lost. That allows hydro to heat up more, so MORE oil is lost. It's a vicious spiral of death...lose enough oil and the hydro pump/motors burn out...$$$$$$
To get the hydro pulley off I used an air impact gun, just be sure it's set to "OFF" first. The 'burb' of the gun gets the pulley off before the shaft will spin. I do the same for alternator pulleys.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 10 May 2020 at 9:16pm |
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I ordered replacement idler pulleys. I will check the fit of he new belt with them, when I get them.
I also thought about cutting a couple pieces of pipe, large enough to fit just inside the rim of the old pulley to 'pinch' it back together in a vice. I might still try that , just for the heck of it.
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