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How Bad Is Todays Tractor Gas

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Dick L View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How Bad Is Todays Tractor Gas
    Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 10:47am
I let the Oliver 77 set from July of last year because the carburetor supposablely needed cleaned. Since it had only been used a few hours a year for the last 10 years and would set with the gas in it over the winters I figured it would need soaked in the cleaner basket. I took it off yesterday to tackle it as I will want it on the baler later in the week in heavy hay. It could not looked any cleaner on the inside if it had set in the basket a week. Last July the old sediment had the screen drop down and fill the bowl with some nasty stuff. I put a new sediment bowl on it that was in my new parts. I only found a slug below the feeder tube that I blowed out. I put it together and back on the tractor. The tractor started up like it ran a few hours before. Took less than an hour. I am almost ashamed of myself for not fixing last summer.    I hear about how bad the carburetors look when taking them apart from todays gas. I only had to blow out the one on the Allis C a couple weeks ago but it was not as clean as this one.
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Richardmo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 11:08am
Really believe it also matter what part of the region that you live in.
We have high humidity and it the tractor sets long enough it will turn.
The tanks that I have lined fair way better.
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Ted J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 3:38pm
I'm guessing you had regular 10% gas in it Dick?
I'm going to try an experiment one of these days and see how long it takes for the 10% ethanol to separate.
That's amazing....you got lucky.
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Ted J Ted J wrote:

I'm guessing you had regular 10% gas in it Dick?
I'm going to try an experiment one of these days and see how long it takes for the 10% ethanol to separate.
That's amazing....you got lucky.


The pump says 10% or less.
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garden_guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 5:07pm
I always put stabilizer in my gas and let the tractors sit for 6 months and they fire right up.
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Dakota Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 5:16pm
The 10% ethanol will absorbe water and settle out. Ethanol is a cleaner if your fuel system is durty it will loosten it up and bring it down to the carb. If your fuel system is clean it'll keep it clean. I bought a 1950 grain truck it had been sitting a long time.i put E10 in it of course it wouldn't run. Pulled the bung out of the tank bottom and pocket it the ethanol loosten end all the gunk in the tank and it came out in sheets. Sure cleaned the tank. I strained that 5 gallons and put it in the tank. Drained it out till it came out clean.the carb was the same it had never had ethanol gas in it. And it was varnished up bad.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 5:50pm
Maybe thats the catch, once the tank is CLEAN, no problems  ?  I have been using the 10% for 40 years in  4 tractors , 2 truck , car, chainsaw, weed eater , pole saw , post hole digger ........ never had a problem... Most set from Nov 1 till April 1... start right up.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 5:53pm
Ethanol is really hard on newer small carburetor s.
Any plastic becomes very brittle( including any paper thin diaphragms)
All the old stuff is metal( I've had to rebuild and fix so many carburetors that are on very reliable motors (like Hondas or stihls) that have been compromised because of ethanol sitting in them and the small are plastic or composite parts become brittle and don't work as they should..
Just my 2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimNearFortWorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 6:57pm
I think the limited ethanol theory about cleaning stuff up is spot on.
Remember when a good dose of "HEET" took care of bad (wet) gas or overall condensation in the winter back in the 60's, 70's and 80's?

I have had no issues since switching to name brand gas for the tractors/small engines and pulled a tank off a D-Series recently to find it was slick as a whistle, a tank on a tractor I bought that had sat for yearsand it was not so pretty when I brought it home. 
Many "bowl cleanings" later and quite a few screen change outs and it looks pretty nice but it has been used regularly.
My carb rebuilder gave me some sage advise, if it's gonna sit for awhile, fill it full enough that a quart of MM Oil can be added to fill it right to the top as a top-off.
Run it for a while so the MM get's mixed in plus the residue coats the empty portion at the top to protect the tank metal while in storage.
Had one I treated like that sat nearly a year to the day and it fired right off and ran fine.

We are pretty darn dry here with low humidity and I think where you live does play into fuel issues.
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HD6GTOM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:39pm
Dad's WD 45 sat along side my hay field for 5 or 6 years. It had E10 in it. I put a new battery in it, cleaned and reset the points. And started it, sure it took a few minutes to get going. I never took off the tank, carb, or sediment bowl for cleaning. It's still running today. I did buy one of the round screens that fits into the entrance of the sediment bowl. Must not have needed it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 5:12am
I'd say it's just fine.  I pulled the carb apart on my WC that has had E10 in it from day one of a 20 year old rebuild.  It looked as clean inside as it did the day I did the work 20 years ago.  Everything I own has E10 in it and everything will start and run just fine on gas that has been in the tank for months.
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Bob J (Wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob J (Wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 8:09am
We use premium with no ethanol in every piece of equip with  a motor.
The carbs and tanks never need cleaning or draining. Always use Sta-bil over
winters.
 
We would never go back to regular with 10% ethanol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 9:32am
My C had nice shiny metal in the gas tank when I bought it. After about 4 or 5 years it is all rusty inside the tank. It started out clean but it's not clean any more. My brother has a C that sat for a couple years and he always puts stabilaizer in everything. A couple weeks ago he pulled it out and the carb was so bad it was like a grey cement in the bottom of the bowl. He couldn't clean it by soaking in regular carb cleaner and had to resort to muriatic acid he had on the shelf to get that crap out. That's 10% ethanol here in Minnesota.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 11:10am
The issue with ethanol, is partly what it is, and partly what it does.

Ethanol is a Hygroscopic, Miscable, Versatile solvent.  This means it absorbs moisture, (and the water it absorbs does NOT need to be in a liquid state)  it will do it in any proportion, and it will mix with a variety of many other things as well.

It's hygroscopic nature is the reason it is used in scientific experiments and chemical processes as a DESSICANT.  When a laboratory sample needs to be dehydrated, it's placed in a vacuum chamber with a dish of anhydrous ethanol, a slight vacuum, drawn, and the temperature raised a bit, moisture from the sample is exhuded, and captured in the ethanol.

In a garage-test, a sample of ethanol, left in a cloth-covered mason jar in a midwestern garage will increase it's MASS simply by extracting it from the air... and you'll SEE it do it, given an appropriate amount of time for your local environment, but you'll need a SCALE to accurately MEASURE it... because when you add one cup of ethanol to one cup water, you end up with SLIGHTLY LESS THAN two cups of VOLUME... but the concordant weights match.

As POLAR compound... it readily gathers ionic compounds and organic solvents like acetic acid, ethylene glycol, chloroform, hexane, and trichloroethane.... and many others.

Ethanol cannot be transported via pipeline like petroleum products-  once it is exposed to moisture, it absorbs it, and any contaminants (particularly those listed above), it inherits the circumstances of the contaminants.  Acetic acid being a big one- white metals, particularly castings, where dissimilar metals exist) react in a galvanic corrosion process.  This is frequently misinterpreted as 'cleaning', as acetic acid (absorbed from the air, with moisture) etches the inside of fuel systems and breaks down polymers (rubber and plastics).

In an anhydrous state (meaning, no water absorbed) It's flashpoint is 57.2 degrees F  (for comparison, gasoline is -45F).  This changes once it's absorbed other compounds, and as such, it is very difficult to obtain an optimal combustion mixture.

While it's touted as a large reducer of emmissions, this is only the case when complete combustion occurs- When incomplete combustion occurs, ethanol yields significantly larger amounts of 'bad stuff' (formaldehyde and acetaldehyde).

As Tim noted, the humidity of an individual's area DOES impact degradation of motor fuel... but the impact that moisture ingress has can be decieving.  A vented steel fuel tank feeding a steel fuel line to a cast iron carb with a brass float is NOT the same as a controlled-vented plastic tank with stainless lines, in-tank fuel pump, steel injectors with ceramic nozzles.

If a fuel system is clean, perfectly sealed, and absolutely no way for any contaminants to conjoin with ethanol-blend systems, there is no way for it to cause problems.

The reality is, that there is no way to maintain a clean, perfectly sealed system... EVER.  It WILL wind up with contaminants, and those contaminants, once in combination with others, result in reactions that cause damage.  Because of this simple fact, and ethanol's hygroscopic nature, the worst thing anyone could ever do to ANY fuel system, is leave it sitting. 

Straight gasoline won't attract really bad stuff.  What it WILL do... is evaporate... and it will ALWAYS evaporate the lightest-fractions-first... as time goes by, the lighter ones leave, and the heavier ones stay behind... leaving thick gooey sludge... in much the same way a refinery separates greases and bunker oils from kerosenes and gasoline.

Fortunately, for those of you that have tractors running Propane...  as long as the filters catch any dirt, and the regulators don't get stuck from sitting (spring fatigue, etc), they'll be good basically eternally, because it IS a sealed system... it is very, very hard to contaminate.

For gasoline engines, regardless of WHAT you put in the tank, shutting off the fuel valve and running the carb dry, and/or opening the carb drain to run it dry, will ALWAYS offer chances for better result.  Filling the tank to ALMOST the top is also a good idea, as it eliminates volume for air to occupy, but be careful- as temperature changes, the fuel must be able to expand and contract... add too much, and the system will generate pressure and leak out somewhere, usually in a very undesireable way.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jlbintn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 11:20am
I just had my tank cleaned and lined. Filled it up and have run about half of the gas through the tractor. I took the sediment bowl off and have not yet replaced it. I added a filter down line of the shut-off. I have went through four filters, counting the newest. The crud that came out prior to the tank rework was goopie and nasty. The new filter is clean and clear.

I plan on putting in a new sediment bowl to complement the filter, but that's down the road a bit.

I believe in Sea Foam, too. I don't run 10% in the tractor, I have what I believe to be a good source for gas. I don't buy gas from the 7-11 style stations. I have been told that 10% is fine as long as it is used. Letting it sit, especially in small equipment, is where the problems begin. I can verify that to be true, for me at least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Bob J (Wi) Bob J (Wi) wrote:

We use premium with no ethanol in every piece of equip with  a motor.
The carbs and tanks never need cleaning or draining. Always use Sta-bil over
winters.
 
We would never go back to regular with 10% ethanol.
IMO, if you started using SEA FOAM as a "conditioner", you wouldn't need to spring for "premium" WinkWink
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 8:23pm
What is MM oil?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John (MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 9:17pm
I believe it refers to Marvel Mystery Oil.
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