HD5 Hydrolics. No Umph??

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   Its to hot to work outside so I,m asking question, espceicialy for Coke.  My front loader will not pick up unless its nearly empty.  Then it works fine but slow.  I have full extension but no power for really picking up anything.  A couple years ago, we tuned it up by adjusting the access on the control bridge.  It really didn't help.  Now the next hope, is to clean/repair detent valve.  Is this the problem?  If so, Where and how do we fix it.  Stay cool guys.  Ralph in the Missouri Ozarks.

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River Hills Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 Jul 2011 Location: Missouri Ozarks Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote River Hills Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: HD5 Hydrolics. No Umph?? Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 12:16pm
	Its to hot to work outside so I,m asking question, espceicialy for Coke. My front loader will not pick up unless its nearly empty. Then it works fine but slow. I have full extension but no power for really picking up anything. A couple years ago, we tuned it up by adjusting the access on the control bridge. It really didn't help. Now the next hope, is to clean/repair detent valve. Is this the problem? If so, Where and how do we fix it. Stay cool guys. Ralph in the Missouri Ozarks.

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Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41932	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 12:51pm
	Tap one of your lines with a T and install a pressure gage , sounds like your pump is weak . Hydreco gear pump and they wear out or get to much clearance on wear plates. A quick test on if pump has full output pressure shoul show up if you let loader arms come all the way to top against end of travel , the engine should labor down under strain . If not plan on finding a 30 GPM pump you can fit into front of engine. Early machines used a Vickers vane pump but it was replaced on later units with gear pump. There is a small relief valve off the bottom of valve body that has a hose , tube that bypasses back to tank , might check that also. Make sure you have oil level right as it draws from one side and returns to other and depends on the cross tube in front of seat to balance sides.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

River Hills Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 Jul 2011 Location: Missouri Ozarks Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote River Hills Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 1:46pm
	Coke, Thanks for the steering. My machanic thinks its the "Detent Valve" since it raises all the way up. There is little/no help even gunning the engine. I was hoping for an easy check of the 'Detent' now I will request presure test of pump. Thank you for your expirience . I will let you know after we can get into the sheds after this hotness. Ralph

dadsdozerhd5b Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Location: lansdale pa. Points: 535	Post Options Post Reply Quote dadsdozerhd5b Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 2:13pm
	also check your filter and suction screen in the tank. if pump is not getting enough oil it will not perform. hate to see you put a new pump on and kill it also. does the oil have any water in it as this will affect performance. do the cylinders stay up once raised? bad seals can bypass in the cylinder itself and make for sluggish response. all the detent does is hold it in the float position but if the spool is not moving far enough it will restrict the oil flow to the cylinder. be sure oil level is up like coke said. flow meter also can help along with pressure gauge to see exactly what the pump is doing. do all checks before condeming pump as it takes alot of clearance to make them not perform. how is the curl? can it pick up things and seem to have power?
	HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41932	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 4:44pm
	The full forward is the float position , all the way back should give you full pressure to lift on loader and it will or should bring down RPM by quite a bit or give a real load to engine . I believe that relief valve only works on the bucket circuit. Took my pump into a shop I use to do business with and they said it was beyond repair , I managed to put shaft seal in myself and rework the wear plates and internals some and have been running it for another 15 years ,
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

River Hills Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 Jul 2011 Location: Missouri Ozarks Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote River Hills Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 6:51pm
	Dear Coke and Dad, Thanks so much fo the expirience. This is my 55' HG5G. My 52' HG5G is show room perfect and it will pick up a 30" walnut tree out of the ground. A few years ago I went on line and bought everything, manual wise, but all I got was scamatics on the Trac O Vator. All existing service people only replace and can not repair. I did have a good rebuild of a couple of fuel pumps for the 271 and if they are still in buisness, my last resort will be a rebuilt of the hydrolic pump. However, I worry that a renewal of pump may not be the problem, as Dad had mentioned. Three years ago I had all new hoses and fluid. There never was ump before or after. Where is the filter and suction screen??? No manual or physical inspection indicates them on my two HD5's. Also, please advise where I can put a test presure gauge for pump?? Also, The curl stinks as well, so the Detent might be OK?? We ajusted the internal screw at the control platform with no improvement. Again Thank You and I await your replies for action after our 102 degree days. Ralph

dadsdozerhd5b Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Location: lansdale pa. Points: 535	Post Options Post Reply Quote dadsdozerhd5b Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:49pm
	i will find my manual and let you know exactly where they are but generally, the pressure filter is next to the hydraulic tank and the suction screen is in the tank itself. suction screen clogged will not allow enough oil to enter pump thus decreasing speed and power. if i remember correctly, the pump is plumbed in with pipe threads so easy to install. either put flow meter after the pump in the front or just before it enters the control valve. pressure gauge can go same place. you can start with just pressure gauge as they are easier to come by and eliminate part of the problem. if it will make the top of the pressure scale just slowly, it is a flow problem. if it will not make the pressure at all, too much clearance in the pump or relief valve sticking open. most times the extra clearance is in the end clearance of the gears to the case which can be fixed. if the gears are all torn up, start with a new pump. there has to be a main relief valve for the system or i would think it would blow alot of hoses or heat up the oil quickly. do you have the correct weight oil?
	HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41932	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 9:04pm
	The curl on the bucket is weak as the size and the linkage do not allow a lot of force for some reason. I have had many times where i could don't curl back when loading from stockpile or trying to lift something with curl . and if in the full dump position where it will not push dirt forward across a truck dump box. Lift has been no such problem for me There is a drain in both loader towers on the bottom of the box section but I am unaware of any filter. I have used ATF in loader at times when I got a good deal on 100 gal of it and R&O hyd oil medium. as well as 10/30 oil and never seemed to make a difference . might check hose on suction side to be sure it isn't collapsing internally and restricting pump.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."