This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


HD16s PARTS TRACTOR TO AC COLLECTION

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD16s PARTS TRACTOR TO AC COLLECTION
    Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 2:55pm
Ok, almost forgot about posting pictures of this episode.Back in June we placed a complimentary bid on 2 HD16s at an auction in Sacramento, Ca. They were represented as for salvage only, which meant to us that they probably should not run. So we bid accordingly. photo HD 16 CARB 004_zpsfuirrqzt.jpg
Yep, got stuck with both of them (oh what a surprise), So this is what they looked like when we got there. I don't want to bring any bodys blood to a boil (AC fans), but this is kind of how the story goes. You see the state of California has declared "death to all Allis Chalmers diesel engines" (CARB) California Air Resources Board that is. We took our Cozad detachable gooseneck trailer and our septic tank crane truck with an equipment trailer and placed them accordingly. photo HD 16 CARB 006_zpsm7fuhaxi.jpg
The auction people had told us they could provide some assistance, but weren't to specific. Turned out it was this big forklift which was very helpful. More of the CARB story, looking at all the pictures that the auction people posted for the sale it appeared that the tractors had been run very recently. So the discussion with the auction rep was "oh yeah they were running fine when the farmer brought them in and backed them of his lowbed" photo HD 16 CARB 008_zpspwzezxv9.jpg
The forklift couuld not push it on all the way ,so we used the crane truck to assist.
As soon as the farmer unloads and leaves the site the auction staff goes out there with there plasma laser guided missle or torch, or whatever there soup of the day is and blows "BIG HOLES IN THE BLOCK"  on both sides!!
 photo HD 16 CARB 009_zpsze2cvaom.jpg
So John hooks the crane truck back to the equipment trailer to get ready to load the 2nd 16.
Besides cutting holes in the block they also cut the main frame into in the middle of the engine on both sides
 photo HD 16 CARB 012_zpsxqaks8wh.jpg
The forklift did need help from the crane truck to get it up these ramps
The auction people are obligated to do this with any piece of "none CARB compliant" equipment that comes from a state agency.
 photo HD 16 CARB 010_zpsnirgt2nh.jpg
The loading went quite well, better than some episodes.
In this case the farmer had apparently already made a deal with the devil by receiving some type of grant money to replace these machines, Therefor they became some state agency property. 
 photo HD 16 CARB 014_zps8ihijjlj.jpg
Apparently if a private party brings something like this in with no strings attached they will not destroy it. photo HD 16 CARB 016_zpspw2xwcoc.jpg
We were loaded by 10:00 and headed home.
Private farmers and contractors are obligated now to take these things out of service and destroy them.
 photo HD 16 CARB 019_zpsxlndy4b1.jpg
So this should be a familar site. The 745 to unload whatever doesn't run.
So if you were some one who had to park some of this old stuff and did not qualify for some kind of cost sharing program and could not afford to replace with new or compliant stuff, TS fold your tent and go home.
 photo boardman fire 004_zps9brbjvlk.jpg
Yes, there aren't to many of these out there that are going to cause a problem in the big scheme of things. photo boardman fire 007_zpsvukdaqm3.jpg
So if you look close at the 16 in the back, you can see that the radiator is tipped forward. The frame was cut well enough that the only thing holding the engine in is the hood is still bolted to the cowl.
I tried to start one and is was going to run but I stopped it.

 photo boardman fire 009_zps3vuclirq.jpg
SOOO PLEASE!  don't tell anybody where they are. I don't want to start the new year in jail.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 5:49pm
Weld them holes up, and run'm again...
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8700
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 8:51pm
I am a little confused (surprise, surprise). Are these cut up beyond use for anything other than parts, or might they run again.....? Darrel
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 34278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 9:03pm
dang lib california lib nuts...
 here is part of the problem of that CARB crap

The Agricultural Tractor Replacement Program provides incentive funds for the replacement of in-use, off-road mobile equipment that are engaged in agricultural operations as defined by the California Air Resources Board. Funds are provided on a first come, first serve basis and applicants must obtain approval and have a signed, executed contract from the SJVAPCD prior to purchase of new equipment. Any equipment purchased prior to contract execution is ineligible as this is not a rebate program.

Eligibility

  • Eligible tractor/equipment includes but is not limited to wheel loaders, balers, combines, graders or tractors.
  • Must be self-propelled.
  • Must be domiciled and operated annually 75% within CA and 50% within SJVAPCD (see map of SJVAPCD on reverse side).
  • Must currently be in-use and in operational condition.
  • Must have a uncontrolled (Tier 0) or Tier 1 engine that has a horsepower rating of 25 or greater.
  • New tractor/equipment must have current model year emissions engine (tier 3, tier 4i, or cleaner depending on hp & availability).
  • New tractor / equipment must serve the same function and perform the same work equivalent as the old tractor/equipment.

Incentive

Funding amounts are based on a dollar per horsepower table as determined by the advertised horsepower of the engine in the new tractor, not to exceed 80% of the eligible costs.

 
incentives ..wheel Loaders     all hosepower   $450 DOLLARS PER HORSEPOWER
  other tractors and equipment  25-109 HP   $200 per HP
                                            110-149 HP   $250 per HP
                                            150+            $350 per HP
 
----------------------------------
 No wonder them old crawlers were cut... 178hp x 350 = 62,300 x 2 =124,600 buckaroos  an scrap iron is worth what? 60 bucks a ton??? x18 app. thousand bucks.. double that, 2000 --- maybe 4 thou if parted out to those that need parts????
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
Back to Top
JohnCO View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
Points: 8992
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 9:06pm
Somehow I suspect at least one of those machines will be moving under it's own power.
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
Back to Top
Ian Beale View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
Points: 993
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 9:14pm
JohnCo

But obviously not within the defined area of California!

- nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 11:28pm
well for someone from the bottom of the world who is reading all this in utter disbelief    about all this good machinery being virtually destroyed
This no doubt applys to allis chalmers; all caterpillar pre comb and a lot of direct injection engine machinery; all of cyrus Hs creations [IH] and bird scarers [detriot diesel 2 stroke] engines.
surely a lot of this equipment could be exported, sold overseas, yes to people like me who would love to get his grubby hands on things like a nice HD11ep and a D7G. or alas am I fantiscing again ??
On the positive side a lot of people over there will be tripping over themselves trying to get to this wonderous money tree that grows free $$ for new tractors !
Inform us please boys. Also what is tier 1 compliant engines; or what model/year engines onwards doesn,t this legislation effect. Caterpillar engines wise; as do know my way around all the pre 1990 stuff pretty well.
cheers from new Zealand; Merv
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
JohnCO View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
Points: 8992
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 11:36pm
tits tyres and tracks
they all cost you money

Yes, but they are all fun!
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
Back to Top
CAL(KS) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 5:09am
what a waste to destroy something in working order.  can you post the number for the parts hotline, i may need a few things Big smile
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 2:37pm
OK, so here's how the damage was done photo PC270046_zpsex69rjmp.jpg
They got right after the frames big time. photo PC270045_zpsvoh5fylv.jpg
Both sides
 photo PC270044_zpslauikchb.jpg
You can see right into the crankshaft now pretty easy photo PC270043_zpscdliqtbo.jpg
These guys were trained professionals. AC hit men, they used fire extinguishers on both of them. Most of the retardant has washed of from the rain.   photo PC270042_zpsfwez1wxf.jpg
Cal, haven't set up a hot line for parts yet, but I think that rear mounted pto tank and valve will run that ripper when you get it on that HD16 cable blade
Back to Top
Dgrader View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Newton,IL
Points: 1037
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dgrader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 2:49pm
Man, what a waste. Always thought people in california were crazy. Not talkin bout you Mel. Doin that makes no sense.
Ya cain't fix stupid.
Back to Top
HudCo View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
Points: 3867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 5:49pm
richie bros. auctions only sell oldstuff any way so does that mean they destroy everything that isnt carb complyant in California or just stuff that was in that . i call it cash for clunkers program also i thought that program was done about a year ago  ????
Back to Top
ac_sd View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 23 Apr 2011
Points: 194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac_sd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:07pm
If anybody wants to know why taxes are high in CA and the State always is hungry for more, you need look no further than this !!  This program effects Trucking, Commercial Fishing Boats and even Private Yachts !! Extremely expensive all because of the "Tree-hugging Greenies" who pass the cost on to others!!!
Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:57pm
That motor looks fixable, to me...
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 34278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 10:00pm
DD, Mel could just drill some holes around the bif hole and bolt a plate on for inspection cover... LOL
  Yea, seeing what them crazied idiots do, they should be kicked so hard in the rear end that toe of the shoe would be in their mouth... maybe then they might find their brains.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 8:32pm
Maybe I can explain it better. The law here in California that we are dealing with is known as AB32 (assembly bill) don't remember what year it was passed, but it's been a game changer if you are in the private sector with your own equipment trying to make a living. Yes our liberal legislature is going to save the planet no matter who goes out of business in the process. We had x amount of years to comply with new equipment and trucks that met the criteria. Many people gave up do to the worst economy ever and no financing to by new equipment.

This equipment and trucks can and still is taken out of state for sale. It could be sold privately or taken to auctions. If it is property of the state then they make sure it is destroyed or at least inoperable, as the case of these HD16s.

ac-sd is wright about these issues, we kicked the can down the road and procrastinated long enough that we bought a used 2012 Pete truck that is compliant for delivery. We also are going to put a filter on the 2006 Pete boom truck for $20,000.00 (the one in this post). We will have 2 CARB compliant trucks when we are done.  The people that are in charge and the people that signed the bill DO NOT CARE IF YOU GO OUT OF BUSSINESS!!  it's less pollutants.

We probably won't try to fix these engines,not knowing what kind of condition they were in. We think we might disassemble them completely and put all the parts on the shelf if there good.

Back to Top
Richardmo View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rolla mo.
Points: 1746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 8:41pm
Think this program is also in TX!
A Program of the Texas Emissions Reduction Plan (TERP)

so it not only in CA!
Seen this on IH tractor that had hole cut into it block sold online about 3 months ago.
Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 9:10pm
Best way to do it would be to mill that hole round, with a hole saw, then thread a big pipe plug in it. The circle and thread would stabilize from further cracking.  Looks like its under the water jacket, but I'd pressure test it first...

What they did in cash for clunkers, was to add sodium silicate to the oil, and ran till they quit from bearing failure.
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:02am
Our illustrious governing agencies seem to have a hand in most everything trying to work some sort of game.  Many US Class 7 trucks are being shipped out of country if over 10 years old after trade in to a dealer now, most are being shipped to South America, Mexico, the African continent or Middle East nations.   Reason being, to remove the heavy exhaust emitters from availability, forced upgrade to newer units.  Is supposed to be coming to US farm tractor market next according to local dealer, forced compliance now how is that legal?
Back to Top
CAL(KS) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 8:27am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Our illustrious governing agencies seem to have a hand in most everything trying to work some sort of game.  Many US Class 7 trucks are being shipped out of country if over 10 years old after trade in to a dealer now, most are being shipped to South America, Mexico, the African continent or Middle East nations.   Reason being, to remove the heavy exhaust emitters from availability, forced upgrade to newer units.  Is supposed to be coming to US farm tractor market next according to local dealer, forced compliance now how is that legal?

A stupid ass plan to begin with.  So they do not or are not able prevent the resale of these items to other places, and since our air is in a different jar than Mexico and South America this plan will work great.  The other countries will continue to run older, more polluting equipment longer, instead of cleaning up their emissions, and we will have the clean and wonderful California air enveloping the whole US.  This is almost political forum worthy.  TARDS lol


Edited by CAL(KS) - 30 Dec 2015 at 8:29am
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:20pm
Goes along with 'planned' obsolescence of machinery, cannot buy parts for a great deal of cars/trucks over 9 years old as the original manufacturer does not have to continue to make parts for them.  Try finding a Carter AFB NIB or anything that matter in body parts for a 1995 Honda other than aftermarket Korean crap.  Is starting to show on our older farm machines too and not just the ones out of production as Allis.
Back to Top
Josh H View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: Carnesville, GA
Points: 128
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josh H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:41pm
Less freedom everyday. More tax everyday. Tax the corporations they say,...oh wait, the corporations just pass it on to us. GOVCO. is a money eating monster, taking more everyday.
Back to Top
Josh H View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: Carnesville, GA
Points: 128
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josh H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:43pm
Awesome crawlers though!
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8700
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 6:50am
The thought of deliberately destroying equipment like that just makes my blood boil. Guess I have an attitude of not wasting anything that has some use left in it. Wonder how much pollutants were put into the air in the manufacturing process of the machines that replaced these 2 work horses. ..? Probably more than what these 2 would spit out in the rest of their lives. My guess is that. ......well, anything else I might say would have to go onto the political forum. Darrel
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 1:00pm
I just wonder of the cutting arc/gasses it took to do the damage, how much did that emit!!
Back to Top
TREVMAN View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Regina,Sask,Can
Points: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TREVMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 1:11pm
Any one who would do that is truly a savage, Trev.
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 3:41pm
And in the meantime; the 2 biggest polluters in the world; china and india; continue to pollute the planet totally unchecked.
At least my conscience is clean; as have planted and own more than enough trees to totally absorb my miniscule carbon footprint in the world.
And yes they will get cut down for timber one day too. Retirement money for me ! To buy abit more diesel so I can listen to my allis chalmers and caterpillars purring away
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Eric B View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 966
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 4:41pm
I didn't know how radical California has become ....we might as well all take notice that now is when we better enjoy the old iron we have. With the big meeting of world leaders in Paris regarding global warming and pollution it will soon be the stroke of a pen and our fun may be over. Last year I moved away from the southwest corner of British Columbia (where the dense population is)  where they have now implemented a heavy duty "carbon tax" on older used machinery. I was so happy to retire and move my machinery out of there. They coax you register your equipment before the "the pollution cop" finds you unregistered and then you pay punishment fees in addition to the rate. You pay by the horsepower...for an older big machine this can amount to more than $3000 per year. Imagine that for an older good working machine that you only need a few hours per year. This truly forces many operators out of business but that is perfectly fine with the "politically correct crowd". Once this "crowd" get their way around the globe there's really no room left for us old timers. I support being reasonably mindful about pollution but let's not throw out good old fashioned common sense. "The good old days" may soon be discovered to have been even better than we thought. 
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
Back to Top
SHAMELESS View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: EAST NE
Points: 29486
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 7:21am
maybe someone should cut a hole in Calif's Govenors daughters BMW's engine?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.656 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum