This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


HD11B GRAPPLE FACELIFT/RESTORATION

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD11B GRAPPLE FACELIFT/RESTORATION
    Posted: 25 May 2016 at 3:06pm
OK, We're going to give this Grapple tractor some different components that are in better shape. A good friend would like to use it on a logging job that is suited for grapple tractor work. We're going to make some needed repairs and put it on his payroll. His staff will be operating it after some training.
  The process starts with the normal firehose wash job.
 photo P5240064_zpseabebbqp.jpg
So it gets close to the shop where we will take the blade off, find the master track pins take of pads and get the track pins ready to come out. The pins,bushings and rails do not have enough life in them for another logging job. photo P5240071_zpsk5h4s9qn.jpg
The operators compartment is pretty rough and will need attention too. photo P5240074_zpszajpqinf.jpg
This might make some one mad but this will be the "DONOR TRACTOR" the swing frames and rollers,idlers will be used. The tracks will not be used. Somewhere in the yard is a set of tracks with bushings and pins turned with 20'' grousers. (have to find them) The engine from this tractor will be used in another 11B. This 11B is also a direct drive farm tractor. Hoping to work my way to it in the next couple of days and have it out to tear into for the 3 day weekend. photo P5240075_zpskfru8ldt.jpg
This won't be a showpiece restoration like a couple of the other ones. This is for work. Ok, I'll post as I go, hope to have lots of stuff from 2 tractors scattered all over by Monday.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Ferdinand View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Points: 1951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ferdinand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 2:34pm
Keep it coming, AC. I really like to see how you handle the work on these big machines.
Back to Top
jorstad brothers View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Location: tioga nd
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jorstad brothers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:02pm
i would love to find a ag cat like that up here.
remember plunder than burn
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:21am
I've been looking for one like that too- would be great for draw bar work.  Almost impossible to find a direct drive 11-B with dozer setup.  An A-C man needs a donor or two these days- I have "donor envy".
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 10:28am
So you take the blade of.You don't have to have a big forklift either. Normally we would just drive out in the yard and put some blocks under the push beams and back out. We will also be changing from an angle blade to a straight blade. photo P5240076_zpszbpnnoc9.jpg
Identify the master track pins and move to where it's easy to get to. photo P5240077_zpsawm2rirb.jpg
Usually take of 2 pads,sometimes the pad bolts cooperate, sometimes they don't. Get the pin to move so you know it will come out.  photo P5240001_zpszrhi0mp0.jpg
We thought we would put it on the cement this time because we are going to roll around under it to do other service work. photo P5260069_zpsmkjjklup.jpg
So the track pin comes up at the sprocket where it's still easy to get to.
 photo P5260072_zpspswptgcc.jpg
This one comes out easier than it should. try these video links

 


http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20TRACK%20PIN_zpsgyc0toz5.mp4

 
 http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20PUSH_zpsleb40vci.mp4



 
http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20TRACK%20PULL_zpshchip7cx.mp4


So the other side was not as cooperative. It was not going to come out very easy. photo P5260077_zpsi8oescie.jpg
We probably won't be using these rails again,so I just cut the links, leaving the master pin alone, it sure expedites the process. We'll cut the master pin out later for future use. photo P5260081_zpsp4ha80ly.jpg
So this is where we are know. Swing frames are next.

 photo P5270011_zps8azo1hdb.jpg



Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 1:36pm
That's an interesting setup where a bottom roller was used for a carrier...
Back to Top
Mactractor View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Points: 652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 4:06am
A number of 11`s here on logging work were changed to that setup Trev. My EP had it when I got it. An engineer working on logging gear back in the day told me he changed many of them. Loggers very hard on tractors he said. I nodded in agreeance
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 12:13pm
Trev, Yes you're right about the carrier roller. The previous owner had done that. Our experience has always shown that any of these 11s that had just 1 carrier roller usually ended up getting bent. We've always used 2 rollers. The previous owner logged a lot in the snow and I think with all the snow build up I think that was his attempt to solve his problem. The other side had a single CAT type roller. (I think it's CAT) photo P5290044_zps2uaj1rdl.jpg
So we need the track guards off to put on the DONOR tractor swing frames. These guards have always been hard to find so we'll need to use these again. We've actually rebuilt some of these in the past. These have a piece of 3/4'' flatbar between the swing frame and the guard, I guess it was also to compensate for the snow build up. photo P5270012_zpsgapi5vp8.jpg
It's quite a job, but the 3/4'' air gun got most of the bolts out and the 1'' gun got the rest. At this time don't plan on doing any thing else to the guards. Will probably need some new bolts though photo P5280015_zpsibebt13r.jpg
We also need the blade trunions. The swing frames on the farm tractors come with the nut blocks inserted in the swing frame,there plugged off with cork,hope that works out. photo P5280017_zpsvhzbv4cz.jpg
Ok, so getting back to the logger abuse. Macs right these logging tractors,especially with grapples were very,very abused. They were designed for use on pretty flat ground. But noooo! they ended up going where ever the operator could get with the tractor. (yes we did it to) Not to make any of are CAT friends mad, but one of these grapples on the back of a D6C would totally destroy it. The 11s held up a lot better. So the reason we're switching out these swing frames is because they are both broke up and welded on. you can see where they have been fish plated. Both swing frames on both sides. They did a good job and everything seems to be straight, but I don't want to go to the brush to weld on them. photo P5280022_zpsfteqxnws.jpg
Ok, so we got the DONOR tractor going. It's been sitting for several years. I forgot that we took the starter off.(pay no attention to Cat D5)  photo P5280028_zpsqapx789z.jpg
The rails on this tractor are almost new and they sat long enough that they got sticky I guess. photo P5280029_zpsdfdrwnf0.jpg
So we took it around the yard to work the kinks out.


http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/Donor%20tractor11%20short_zpstmhdpy6t.mp4

Because these are almost new rails we sacrifice the master pin. We just blow out the center of the pin with the torch (both ends) and they usually come right out.  
 photo P5290032_zpsjgf9cxwg.jpg
Some times the air gun will even do it.

 

http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/AIR%20HAMMER%20T4ACK%20PIN_zpsrrcrwsgo.mp4

 photo P5290035_zpswsk32qlj.jpg
We'll get the tracks out of the way. photo P5290040_zpsf0yntvpq.jpg
So this is what it looks like this morning. We'll make an assault on the swing frames and get them off and upside down for guard installation. photo P5290045_zpssuvpbids.jpg
Ok, so the straight blade off this 11 goes on the grapple tractor. The engine out of the orange DONOR tractor goes in this 11. (It has either broken rings or valve guides or some issue). David says if I could get that blade off soon,he could start painting while we're still working on the grapple. This blade is in real good condition and needs to go logging again.  photo P5290048_zpse1t4odmf.jpg
Ok, You still with me ? LOL
Back to Top
Ferdinand View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Points: 1951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ferdinand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 2:31pm
Still following along! Nice playground you have there.
Back to Top
jorstad brothers View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Location: tioga nd
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jorstad brothers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 4:10pm
still here even though i shed tears for the ag cat.
remember plunder than burn
Back to Top
Gargoyle View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 29 Aug 2013
Location: Missouri
Points: 186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gargoyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 7:11pm
I love it that Mel saves these old machines..


Back to Top
Steve allis dozer View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access


Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Location: Australia
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve allis dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2016 at 4:37am
Great job AC Mel , i would sure like to buy that ROPS system off that ag tractor from you but i don't know how i would get it over here 
Regards steve
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 8:59am
I think the D5 carrier roller has a beefier shaft, which is probably why they used it- yes, I've seen lots of bent carrier rollers on HD11s- they weren't exactly over engineered.
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 11:08am
Ok, here's our forward progress. The swing frames from the DONOR tractor were removed and cleaned. The bolts for the guards were removed, they are to short to reuse. photo P5300002 2_zps4mboat4j.jpg
We have some really, really special anti seize lubricant compound to put on the bolts. JET LUBE SS-30 copper high temperature. (you know the kind of stuff you get when you go to an industrial type auction, buy the $50.00 shelf that you want only to find out you have to take the contents too. So when you get it home and dig through the contents you find things like 30 bottles of JET LUBE probably worth $300.00) Good stuff, we haven't had to buy any regular neversieze fo several years.   photo P6020009_zpsks1nexi7.jpg
Blade trunions were installed. Had to dig the cork out of the holes and chase the threads. Used new bolts, the old ones usually are pretty rough when you back them out with the 1"air gun. photo P6040014_zpsg8feud4i.jpg
So this gets a paint job,not a showpiece paint job though. David decided it was a good place to buff off some of the rough stuff. photo P6040017_zpsnoigoadf.jpg
It's a lot easier to paint some of it now before putting it back together. photo P6030012_zpsivjq1k1j.jpg
We've taken the angle blade off and will be putting on a straight blade with a tilt. It doesn't have the tilt valve, so we'll have to add that spool and run new hoses to the blade. We've located a temporary DONOR valve in our inventory. photo P5300004 2_zps30flwdo7.jpg
We're going to borrow the valve of of an HD16B for the time being. That tractor needs a ring and pinion and we can't find those parts. In the B series the 11s 16s and 21s used this same valve setup. photo P5300005 2_zpskyxlwq5r.jpg
Slow process when you have a day job that keeps interfering.
Back to Top
Sugarmaker View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8168
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 9:22pm
Awesome pictures of your work on these big machines.
Thanks for keeping us up to date.
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8588
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 11:23pm
Dang, you guys can get er done in a hurry. It'd probably take you an hour to do what I've been working on for a year and a half on my HD5G. Just love your pictures/stories. Thanks, Darrel
Back to Top
Josh H View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: Carnesville, GA
Points: 128
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josh H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 2:31pm
Thanks for posting. You are going to make him get youtube
Vids of it in the woods, right?????? I hope so. I'd love to see id dragging logs and hearing the engine and the sound of the tracks
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29615
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 4:41pm
Mel, what color and brand of paint are you using, would be interested as I fully intend to repaint the old 7G when I get time!!
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 476
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 2:33am
Love your storys and pics boys; but one wee question ??
The bush rigged 11-B; one with the winch; that has a engine problem.
Why not rebuild the engine ? You guys should have a lot better luck with parts than us fellas down at the bottom of the world. I know minpaar don,t have any 6000 or 11000 kits; and havn,t had much luck tracking down any other manufacturers. So what do you guys stateside do ?
Certainly enjoy reading your rebuild storys. And your right about grapples; and integral winch arches too; on D6C/D final drives. The deadshafts will flex/bemd, etc and then there is expensive toothache !
Cheers from kiwiland
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 9:45am
Merv, you're right we could rebuild these. It's just been easier and faster to switch them out. We have 3- 11000 engines that can be rebuilt. Haven't looked for any of those parts lately,but I'm sure they are becoming hard to find.

Dave, the paint right now is Cat. If we use yellow paint we just go with Cat. This paint is several years old. We bought 2-5Gal cans in Idaho because we couldn't buy it in California any more. We thought the old recipe was better than the new concoction that the state of Ca. was requiring. Don't know if it really mattered in the big scheme of things.
When you get around to it the Caterpillar paint is probably an easy choice. When we paint the orange tractors we have a couple of different choices that are horribly expensive. 
Back to Top
Tracy Martin TN View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gallatin,TN
Points: 10562
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 10:07am
Nice job! 
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
Back to Top
R.KYLE View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 01 Jun 2013
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R.KYLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 9:30pm
WE NEED UPDATES MEL VERY INTERESTING STUF.
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 10:39pm
OK, a quick update. That whole day job thing slowed us down. Did get the tilt valve off the DONOR tractor HD16 tank. photo P6130020_zpsul8mwyqj.jpg
Also got the belly pans of. We'll start pressure washing soon. Won't get much done this weekend. We have to cook 1100 lbs. of beef roasts for the local volunteer Fire Dept. It's our annual fundraiser. We'll serve 1000 to 1500 dinners. I light the fire at 6:00 AM and go home about 11:00 PM (It's the only day of the year that I hate meat by the time it's ready to eat.) just kidding, but it's a workout day.   photo P6150023_zpskrm71at9.jpg
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 10:05pm
Ok, we're back, that whole day job thing really cuts into this fun stuff. So after a major pressure washing we put all the oil back in. New oil in the transmission/torque converter. steering clutches etc. photo P7220208_zpsuhoxjrib.jpg
Went on to the swing frames, I think we do it different every time,whatever we have available to put them on.
 photo P7230212_zpse54xacmf.jpg
It's always convenient if you're close to the main shop where all your regular toys are. photo P7240215_zpsi1jlaqqp.jpg
Ok had to go find some tracks. Had an Idea where I left them several years ago.
 photo P7240216_zpswn5ljtjn.jpg
We had pins and bushings turned in these years ago. They were pretty crusty looking. photo P7250219_zpsuq7wmt1k.jpg
But one quick firehose job and they look good. photo P7250221_zpstyjndkxj.jpg
Back to Top
ACcrazy View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: Eureka, Califor
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 10:14pm
Looking good, Mel. Smile
Back to Top
AC Mel View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 10:40pm
Bruce, glad you're still out there,We're still coming to Weott to get that HD20,I'll keep you posted.
 So we drug these tracks around until we got them to fit.
 photo P7250222_zpstqbognc3.jpg
 photo P7250223_zps7irc3mgx.jpg
 photo P7250225_zpsb851g10x.jpg
So the tracks fit and then we had to put the blade on. photo kirtlan logging 022_zpsrnz1odcv.jpg
We opted for a new cutting edge and corner bits. photo P7230210_zpsyi4ssm1l.jpg
Kind of looks like this when installed. photo kirtlan logging 023_zps8ybtir4y.jpg
 photo kirtlan logging 024_zpsgnyxilq2.jpg
David couldn't stand it, so he got out his paint gun before we loaded it. photo kirtlan logging 028_zpsp0pylxn7.jpg
So we loaded it and delivered to the job. photo kirtlan logging 031_zpsc99lcb6a.jpg
Stay tuned for working videos as soon as I can splice and edit them.
Back to Top
ACcrazy View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: Eureka, Califor
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:03am
Oh yeah, still here and always will be. This is the best place to get my dose of AC dozers. Smile
Looking forward to meeting up with you guys in Weott. Big smile

Incidentally, I've been checking on the entrance to the 21 and it's as undisturbed as when we were last there. It's looking like that machine is destined to rust in peace where it's at, unfortunately. Unhappy
Back to Top
JohnCO View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
Points: 8992
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 11:51am
No luck in talking the owner into selling it?

"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
Back to Top
ACcrazy View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: Eureka, Califor
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by JohnCO JohnCO wrote:

No luck in talking the owner into selling it?



No John, no luck. Of course we haven't tried recently but when we were in talks before, she stopped communicating with us. Have no idea why and I didn't press the issue. Maybe we can get Mel to. Big smile
Back to Top
JohnCO View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
Points: 8992
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 10:19pm
She may have passed away too.
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum