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H3 Track Wear

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StewartMD View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 2:38pm

Recently I was trying to view the track wear charts on the crawler heaven website and see that the page is no longer available.  Does anyone have a copy or different source for these charts?  Thanks.

8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 2:48pm
A factory original Allis Service Bulletin would provide the wear limits and rebuilding dimensions for the Track and undercarriage components.  

There was also a metal track gauge that was available at one time.  Coke or Cal may have posted one in past forum messages.  HTH's Orangeman
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 3:21pm
I used the site also to post both links and pictures of the pages. 
You might try to find the old cash of the site using the WAY-BACK site to link to old pages of crawler havens site. 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2013 at 8:59am
Measure 4 links of your HD3 chain. New 24.01 25% wear 24.14
50% wear 24.25 75% wear 24.26 worn out 24.53
The chain on my HD6G is worn far beyond specs and still working. I was able to find one set of pins and bushings as well as some used chains but if anyone knows where I can get a set of HD6 oins and bushings let me know.
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StewartMD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StewartMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2013 at 9:49am

Thanks everyone for the replies.  Looked at an H3 Loader on Saturday.  The tracks measured at 24.75".  It seems like the past 5 dozers or loaders I have looked at have all had worn out tracks.  How hard is it to turn the pins and bushings?  Are replacement tracks available and anyone know how expensive they are?  I'm sure they are pricey.  Thanks.

8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2013 at 3:20pm
Stewart: What year is the machine?  Pins and bushings dimensions changed around late 62 early 63.  Like you I have found that the track on most all early machines is worn to the point that the rail is wearing down onto the Pin bosses.  At that point time to repin and bush and build up the chain.  

I am not certain what type of template would be needed to stick weld the chain to build it up.  But it was done as a technique during WW II. Both Lincoln and Caterpillar had guides on doing this.  

Let us know how you proceed.   Orangeman
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Eric B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2013 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by StewartMD StewartMD wrote:

Thanks everyone for the replies.  Looked at an H3 Loader on Saturday.  The tracks measured at 24.75".  It seems like the past 5 dozers or loaders I have looked at have all had worn out tracks.  How hard is it to turn the pins and bushings?  Are replacement tracks available and anyone know how expensive they are?  I'm sure they are pricey.  Thanks.

I'm not sure of current costs but some time back I took in a set of track chains for a Cat 931 (bigger pins & bushings than an H3) and it cost me $1000 for parts and labor. If you're not set up with a big enough press and everything that goes with it you can't do it yourself.
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2013 at 6:03pm
Repairing the undercarage is expensive. If you do it yourself it is still expensive. You will be better off paying more for a machine that has a good undercarage. Having said that I have a way of buying machines that need work. After my machine gets fixed I usually sell and find another broken down machine. If you are looking to buy a machine to do one project, Allis Chalmers crawlers continue working even when they are worn out.
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StewartMD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StewartMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2013 at 5:40am
Orangeman-  I am going to call the man today about the serial number.  I am usually good about checking serial numbers but for some reason I completely forgot to on this one.  I will need to look into building up the chain and get some more information on that.
 
Eric- It would probably be easier for me to talk to someone in the area that could do this for me.
 
Dozer- This crawler would only be used occasionally around our farm to clear hedgerows, haul firewood, minor excavation, however I want it to work with only minor repairs. I hate to have something that is always breaking down.  The one reason that I am really interested in this machine is that it has 3pt hitch, a PTO, and a belt pulley attachment.  It is however missing the weight kit.
 
Thanks again for all of the replies.  It's much appreciated.
8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2013 at 4:26pm
Stewart:  The H-3 with a 1066 loader on it called for a total of 8 factory stack weights on the back of the machine.  Four on the left side rear final drive housing and four on the right.  

The total weight of all eight weights came to approximately 1006 pounds.  Please note that any H-3 with the 1066 loader that does not have proper counterweight in the back will likely cause the rear end to tip when the bucket is loaded full, (dirt, gravel or stone).

Why is this point important? 

Well for two reasons.  The first is that the dead load that is created by a bucket full of material must be transferred to some fixed point.  On a crawler loader normally the front idler cross shaft takes up this dead load, along with the idler, frame and rollers.  Distributing weight across more of the bottom rollers is better from a wear standpoint.  So a crawler loader minus the appropriate weight in the back to act as a counterbalance causes the machine to act like a rocking horse fore and aft -which sets up undue wear in the front portions of the U/C.  With the appropriate counter weights this effect was less. 

Secondly, the Allis C frame design which carries the machines and loaded bucket weight was not, (opinion) built heavy enough to take up the many dead loads that were placed against the weakest point on the C frame.  That point exist on the C channel directly behind the idler wheel and where the gusseting begins that communicates between the two halves of the frame.  I have looked at well over 15 H-3's in the past 20 years and of those 15 only one did not have a crack or the beginning of a crack in this location. This machine had been used within its design parameters and had been welled cared for - one owner - one operator machine.   Every machine that had a crack at this location had a weld repair on it to strengthen the C channel frame.    

Nonetheless, with this area repaired  with a good weld and an appropriately sized reinforcement which transfers the stress moments over a greater distance of the frame the repair generally held up well.  If you were to compare and H-3 frame to that of an HD-5 or HD-6 you will see exactly what I am referring to with respect to the strength of the C - Channel.  The comparison though is a bit unfair because the H-3 was intended for the light  industrial market while the HD-5 and HD-6 were targeted to the construction machinery line and the H-3 size and weight was less the either the HD5 or HD6.  

Had the H-3 designed incorporated the HD5/6 bottom we would have had even more interchangeability  for parts for these good old crawlers.  

Hope this provides some insights and help on your decision.  Don't be scared off by a small crack in the frame but if you intend to use the loader plan to find the rear counterweight group.  Good Luck - Orangeman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2013 at 5:22pm
Same thing with the HD4 with a loader - I had a AC 615 backhoe (quick attach) that fit into tool carrier on my HD4 
 Without the hoe all the weight of a loaded bucket transferred to front idler,  backing up created the machine tipping forward when moving. 
 With hoe on the machine all the weight transferred to the rear sprocket bearings (2 timkens in rear case) and without also loading the bucket the machine traveled with weight onto sprockets.  
 After breaking 3 rear axles and rebuilding both rear cases as the cast iron race for the timken cup broke the rear case I ended up selling the machine and buying a AC 715B TLB. 
 On my HD5G the rear weights consist of 2 weights bolted to rear - even with these when backing up with a full bucket the loaded bucket needs to be kept low to ground to prevent forward tipping. 
 ANY TIME ONE MOVES ANY LOADER MACHINE WITH A FULL BUCKET - load needs to be carried as low as possible to keep the machine stable. NEVER travel with bucket at full height when the bucket is full. !!!!   
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2013 at 9:26am
Stewart,  you have an email with a scan of a track guage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StewartMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:40am
Counterweights definitely sound like they are a must for these machines.  I will check to see if a crack has developed on this one.
 
Calvin- Thanks for sending the scan of the track gauge.  I will get that printed and sized and check things out closer.  Thanks.
8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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