C-Cadet Zero Turn Dies as soon as Park Brake is Re

The seat switch will be in series and or parallel with other switches or relay contacts.

Again, a wiring diagram will show what's happening, a 'ladder' diagram even easier to see.

In my microcomputer projects I use a lot of on-open-off switches to get THREE unique 'conditions', and my remote energy systems use a 3 level communications bus that has baffled every hacker for 35 years.

To really blow your mind, coin tosses are NOT just heads or tails.

Frequently, the safety circuits have 'fixed' elements (like the park brake switch, switches on the hand control levers, a switch contact through the PTO switch... and then they have a 'dynamic' element... the seat switch.

What does Dave mean by "Dynamic"???

Well, when you're sitting on the seat, bouncing across the yard, you're not actually holding that switch down ALWAYS...  The switch is BoUnCinG!!!

So what the engineer typically does, is use the seat switch signal to control a relay that has a TIME DELAY function in it... so that, as long as the seat switch is closed for MOST of the time, the time-delay relay will maintain a closed contact (like the 'fixed' elements).

It is a 'de-bouncing' circuit.  When those TD relays fail, they either DON'T work, or they DON'T time very well... they become intermittant... goofy... etc.  Usually they're in a little 'black box' module, and the module controls a common automotive plug-in relay.

When the module goes bad, this kind of thing starts to happen.

But just to make it clear-  ANY of the 'fixed' switch elements can cause erratic operation.... they're a 'safety loop', that when any of the 'safety conditions' are broken, it cuts the ignition.  The fact that your brake is the OBSERVABLE 'cause' of the shutdown, simply means that all conditions are (by wiring) considered safe UNTIL you release the brake.  On MY ZTR, if ANY of the hand controls are in the operating sector WHILE the brakes are applied, it kills the ignition.  If I take weight off the seat with the operating handles in a DRIVE position AND brakes are released, after 3 seconds, the system will kill ignition.

I have accessed every hidden wire and switch on this machine and have not found a single relay; just a bunch of Normally Open and Normally Closed push-button switches; most of them having several "poles" , turning one thing ON when another is turned OFF.

In my quest for ideas and answers, I watched a You-Tube video where this guy flies in on a mower and completely cuts away every wire on it; when he got done, he had a wheel-barrow full of wires.

He then re-wired the machine minus all the "safety" junk and didn't use but maybe three wires.

After watching his video, it was tempting for me to do likewise.

We were chopping silage on ground where angels fear to tread when the truck I was driving slid sideways away from the chopper and off over a steep hill and almost into an old abandoned rock quarry full of water.

To the rescue came Massey-Ferguson 2016 Tractor of the Year; big huge 4x4 cab tractor and brand-new.

The guy driving the tractor was no novice.

Once we were all chained up and he started pulling me away from the quarries edge, that big tractor decided to shut down and die and here we went again; truck and tractor both sliding sideways over the hill.

After a bit, he managed to satisfy all the safety requirements and get the tractor started and running again and got us both back on firmer footing.

When he clumb down out of the Tractor of the Year, his only comment was "these modern safety features are gonna get some of us killed"

OK, took me 75 seconds to find to find the wiring....

..maybe someone can convert to an 'image' to repost it ?

Jay

OK, had to kill time while coffee was being made......

oopsy... upper right switch is the 'neutral switch'.....

my cut and paste was a tad shaky ( only 1st cup of joe.....)

jay

Thanks for posting the diagram; that appears to be the exact same one I have been looking at.

Ever since I started studying that diagram, I have been puzzled about those two Grounds at extreme right of the picture.

From the actual PTO Clutch, at bottom right, the Green wire is an unbroken path to Engine Ground.

Then, at just above right-center, is a black dot which I take to be a splice/junction, with another wire going through the Kohler Engine Plug to Ground again ----- why both ?

Also, looking at the engine plug, on the engine side is two connected wires, "Afterfire Sol." and "Charging"; they become a Red wire that takes an unbroken path to the "L" terminal of the Key Switch; does this "L" get connected to "B" when the Key is On/Run ?

I am assuming that Red wire is the "Alternator/Charging wire, right ?

Reason I ask about the connecting of the "L" and "B" is that another Red wire junctions with the main Red wire and is 12-volt power to the PTO-Clutch through the PTO Switch, where it splits into the two Blue wires that pass through the Reverse cut-out switches on their way to being power to the clutch itself.

By the way, the best thing I have done to this mower is disabling those Reverse Cutout Switches so that I can now mow when backing up; it makes all the difference in the world in tall/tough grass and whether it gets cut or not.

 

Kohler is clever, the 'charging' module is tied to the 'afterfire solenoid' ON the engine. If you spun the engine,say with recoil starter', engine runs without need of a battery. You need to understand that if a manufacturer can make a 'generic' device (engine in this case )it can be easily used in several devices NOT specific to just one mower seriers of one brand.

As for the grounds, often it's how the wiring harness is made and installed.

Yes, RED, is the alternator/rectifier/regulator output. it goes to 'L' and powers everything. When key is on, it's also on 'B',goes through 20A fuse to recharge the battery. You can pull the 20A fuse and the unit will still run.

Internal connections of the ignition switch are usually shown in a chart and while most Indak switches look the same, Internally they can be quite different so you MUST eplace with one specific to your machine.

The seat switch is just 2 wire, simple SPST switch, NO 'magic' that I can see.

That would make a good video...