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modirt 
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
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 Topic: Ground Rods - Electric Fencers
Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 8:26am |
Recently had an opportunity to take a non-working Parmak electric fence charger into the factory for a repair. While tech guys were going to work on it......had a chance to visit with one of the engineer types on clarification of the grounding system they recommend for an electric fencer.....which is at least 3 ground rods, pounded in about 8 feet deep and spaced about 10 feet or so apart. That is a lot of ground rods. To me that is like using a cement block as a paper weight.
My assertion is if the fencer is grounded such that a test of the line shows it is getting the maximum shock a fencer is putting out, then you have "enough" ground.....and if you put in one more ground rod or 100 more ground rods, it won't make any difference.
BTW, the fence testers used to test line voltage only have a short probe in contact with the soil.......and an animals only contact is through it's feet.....standing on the soil.
Am I missing something?
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trace
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Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Location: N.W. Iowa
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 8:41am |
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my fencer has one 8' copper rod and works great. the more rods the better chance of a poor connection between them, overkill.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 8:48am |
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depends on where you live.. If the ground is exceptionally DRY and you don't get good contact, then a 2 or 3 ground could help.. If it rains every couple weeks and the ground is moist down 2-3 feet deep, then your right, more rods do not help.
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DougG
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 9:14am |
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We always drive a rebar in the ground a couple feet and usually works great
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modirt
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 9:30am |
There also seems to be some question related to potential damage to the fencer units from a poor ground.......that somehow a poor ground results in a damage to circuit boards. That might be the case if it's an AC unit and potential damage from lighting strikes on the AC power line source......that a board could get fried.......not sure how the ground rod used to complete the shock circuit is going to help that. I'd think a lightning arrestor or a surge protector would be needed there. Then there is the even more remote chance of a lighting strike on the hot fence wire.......where that juice goes. But can't see how another ground rod is going to help that either.
It seems to be that the super dry, arid conditions is the only place it would help or matter. Or maybe around rocks. Places were a potential shock is going to have to hunt for a pathway back to the fencer to complete the circuit.
But as long as a tester shows a good jolt......."enough" ground is.....well......enough.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 9:42am |
The remote energy control systems I designed and installed 3 decades ago relied upon Mother Earth for the current to return to the 'central monitoring station'. I could be 15 MILES away and still have 100% reliable communication, with 1 or 2 ground rounds at the premise. These were galvanised rods,8 ' apart. We could always tell when the river between us was low as the signal strength went down. Click ,click a 'pot' to adjust and communications returned. If a 'fencer' unit gets fried by lightning or such, it's been very poorly designed. My system used Bell wires to communicate, so out in the open, for MILES, and I never lost 1 unit of the 100s that were out there.
Jay
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john(MI)
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 1:18pm |
I don't know if there are any companies that can test the ground for you, but while working for the govt we tested the ground and if needed, installed another rod. The type of earth is the only factor that could vary the quality of a ground. We used a meggar on the cables, but I don't remember if there was another tester for ground or not. A lot of years ago!
If you wait a little while, I'm sure "someone" will post a video on the subject! 
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Nov 2019 at 8:08pm |
Has to do with the surface area, of the exposed ground rods. Easy to put in more, just chuck them into a hammer drill, like the electricians do... 
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Tbone95
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Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 7:09am |
I upgraded from a single rod to 3 on each fencer a couple years ago, and boy what a difference! My tester used to show "good", still shows "good" but the performance is in the reaction to a zap you see in the cows! Not sure where I read it, but my ground rods are more like 40 to 45 feet apart. They're connected with a continuous run of high tensile wire clamped to the top of each rod and on up to the fencer terminal. It even weaves in and out of some page wire to keep the cows from getting tangled in it. Like I say, works much better than it ever used to. The other thing I intend to do, but haven't yet, is to connect at least one wire on the fence to the ground system. Like 3 hot wires, 2 grounded wires type thing.
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 9:06am |
Don't know if this is just my warped sense of logic........but this is the voltage tester I use on my E fences.......it has a digital readout vs. the less expensive "christmas tree" versions......most of which top out at around 7,000 volts.
Anyway......my logic is if I test at the fencer.....straight from Hot side to ground.....and this is the voltage......and if I test the fence........from hot wire to soil.......and if I get the same reading.......my grounding system is good enough (negative probe on the tester always buried in the soil.....not touching the ground system.
In general, when I build a complete fence enclosure, the terminal end returns to the beginning. So as a fault finder, I start by testing the terminal end.....knowing if it's hot there, it has to be hot all the way around too. And hopefully, I get the same voltage. I usually do with wire.....not always with the poly tape if that is older and may have some broken strands in it.....or if spliced, a bad splice. Also like to test it at the farthest point......to me that is a test of the ground system.
But if I get the same reading, I'm not sure how adding more ground rods will make it any more effective? Unless a cow, horse, dog, etc, represents a larger load to punch through than my voltage meter?
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Tbone95
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Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 10:35am |
mo, I think you're exactly right, the load of a body is WAY different than that of a meter. And I have the same type meter as you do. Kind of like, you turn the key on your tractor, you get lights, but hit the starter and there's nothing. You've got the voltage there (the lights are telling you so like a meter), but when you need the current the ground doesn't conduct it if it's not "good". A meter has extremely high resistance, hence very little current through it when testing. I have a Parmak that has a digital display built in. With 1 ground rod, if it dipped down around 10000 or so, the critters might start disrespecting the fence. Now, I've seen it drop down around 6500, still get a hard zap. IDK, I still see things with the meters and the fencers that confuse the living crap out of me at times.......I'm surely not saying you are wrong.
Edited by Tbone95 - 25 Nov 2019 at 10:36am
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 2:52pm |
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We have one 8 ft copper clad hrounding rod at each fencer except one fence next to the road it has a 3rd wire between the 2 hot wires that is grounded at each end it goes through a dry area and the calves kept going through it.
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 3:04pm |
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Was gonna say grounding rods ONLY work in really dry conditions when the rod is attached to a separate wire. Contact to both sets it to work
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