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Did I ruin my B?!?

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ACJohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACJohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 6:36am
Another option for splitting the tractor is to use round bar stock (about 14" long) and thread one end so you can run the studs into the engine block.  Remove the bell housing to block bolts one at a time and install the studs.   Then remove the radius rod nut (under the bell housing).  Now you can start prying the bell housing off the block.  It will let you see everything much better than through the inspection hole and then decide if more support/room is necessary.  Be very careful if you split it without the studs.  You must support the engine as shown in Dick L's pix because the engine will want to tip over sideways on the front axle pivot.  
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 8:55am
Originally posted by xrishansen xrishansen wrote:

 When I do get it home can I split it right there with a couple of floor jacks? Looks to me like that would be pretty easy, there doesn't seem like to much to disconnect to do that. Or is it more complicated than just disconnecting a few things and pulling it apart?

 It would be real hard and unsafe to split it using floor jacks. The engine will pivot on the front axle making it nearly impossible to roll that forward with a floor jack.
 If you can add some kind of blocking or bracing to keep it from tipping it might be possible, but could be kinda scary. 
 
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Alberta Phil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 9:22am
DON'T SPLIT IT USING A COUPLE OF FLOOR JACKS!!  As you separate the front section the weight of the engine will roll it over at the wishbone pivot and it will fall off the floor jack. Use a hoist as shown in Dick L's picture and suspend the front section by the top of the engine. Also a good idea to make a couple of wood wedges to jam in each side of the front axle pivot to keep it from rolling.  Be safe!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 9:44am
Absolutely!!!!  Once that engine starts to roll, you are not going to stop it until it hits something solid enough to keep it there. Usually the floor, and it WILL break something, including YOU, if you are in the way.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking comes repentance.
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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SteveC(NS) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveC(NS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 7:08pm
All the above really seems to me like the trany was stuck in two gears at the same time when you let out the clutch.
The engine tried it's level best to turn the locked transmission a hence came the smoke.
 
The trany can be shifted back into neutral with the cover plate and shifter forks off as it should be when the plate and forks are re-engaged.
If you suceed in re-setting the transmission into neutral hooray! if not, read on.
 
I have a couple of channel irons with steel caster wheels on one end, but they're not really required. These channel irons are drilled so that they will bolt to the bellhousing/torque tube and touch the floor. When you unbolt the engine after taking the weight with the hoist you can separate the engine from the torque tube and the rearward portion will be sitting just fine on 4 points, the 2 channels and the rear wheels.
The front will be fine sitting on the front wheels and the weight of the engine held by the floor crane. If you don't have a floor crane, rent one, if you're into AC tractors and mechanical stuff buy one.
Good luck, work safe and report back.
 
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by SteveC(NS) SteveC(NS) wrote:

All the above really seems to me like the trany was stuck in two gears at the same time when you let out the clutch.

Read the original post again. He said "It rolls just fine in N but won't budge in gear."
It could not have been stuck in 2 gears if he could shift it to neutral.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Greg (Hillsboro, OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg (Hillsboro, OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 7:53pm
is it a possibility that the governor weight came loose and jammed the engine?   I think I've heard of such a thing before?
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 8:08pm
But with smoke coming from the bell housing when he tried to let out the clutch ????????
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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xrishansen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xrishansen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 7:19am
Hey guys.

  Gonna tow the allis back home today! My brother in law and I are going to tow it home with his truck about 5 miles. I'm kinda worried that I won't be able to figure out how to get it back into neutral when we get there, since I opened up that transmission box and all. Any good advice about that? Can I put the gears in place by hand, and then put the cover back on and know the gears will be okay when we pull it down the road. That worries me. Also I found a cherry picker I can use to split it with. I never figured that the thing could pivot in front and tip over. I'm glad you guys where here to stop me before I ended up with the motor on top of me. I can sure see now how that could happen. Also, do ya think that if I put too much grease up there when I greased the clutch underneath that ifin' some got into the clutch that could have caused the problem? That plate should stay dry shouldn't it? I can feel a little grease on it with dry fingers. However I don't see how that would make it lock up. It should slip then shouldn't it?
 
 Again, this site is pretty cool! I just found a sixty page Manual from the war department for the allis b & printed it up! Pretty good stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 8:27am
If you can't shift it to neutral, take the side cover off and put all the gears in neutral by hand. Line the shifter forks up with the grooves in the gears and assemble. You should then be able to shift it through all the gears and back to neutral.
 Towing 5 miles, I would definitely keep the ground speed down. Lubrication of the bearings could be a problem if you lost much tranny fluid.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Dave Richards (WV) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Richards (WV) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 10:42am
Fellows correct me, but I thought ALL model B Allis' and especially "cranker B's" had a clutch lock out lever.  You should always use the clutch lock out when cranking a tractor.  This way you can check the engine for not being stuck without a second person on the clutch.    Additionally, in the deep winter, when the trans oil is like taffy, you can crank the tractor easier.  Even in neutral, the trans oil puts a strain on the crank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Dave Richards (WV) Dave Richards (WV) wrote:

Fellows correct me, but I thought ALL model B Allis' and especially "cranker B's" had a clutch lock out lever.  You should always use the clutch lock out when cranking a tractor.  This way you can check the engine for not being stuck without a second person on the clutch.    Additionally, in the deep winter, when the trans oil is like taffy, you can crank the tractor easier.  Even in neutral, the trans oil puts a strain on the crank.
 
Your right Dave, they all (did) have. I would bet that most do not know what that dodad hanging back there is for if it is still there. Out of around fourteen B's and C's that I bought, about half did not have the clutch lock on them.
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xrishansen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xrishansen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 7:32am
Hi everybody, I have the clutch lock dodad and now I'm gonna use it every time.

  So the little B is home and safe and sound in the shed! Me and another guy split it Saturday morning. We put a saw horse under the back end, then found a nice spot in front to wedge a bar so the front end would have a hard time tipping over and locked that up with a couple of Cclamps. Then just a floor jack and block right on the oil pan an vuala!!! all we had to do was remove the fuel line and unpin the throttle. Really very simple, don't know why I was so shy about it all.

  Anyway, for those who may have wondered just what went wrong. One of the tiny cotter pins that holds one of the three larger pins that holds one of the three spring things in the clutch together had fallen out and so the clutch went kitty wampus and locked up. The pin was still inside! So we cleaned er all up, put back the pin, shut everything back up, and she started right up in two cranks after sitting all winter outside! Now, anybody got any toys I can buy?
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xrishansen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xrishansen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 7:45am
Also, new oil, filter, pressure gauge, plugs, wires, cleaned and red coated the gas tank, and a little bit of AC orange here and there.

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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 8:04am
I wondered a while back what happened to your tractor. Thanks for the reply and good job on the repair. Now for the bad news.I think you may have been bitten by the orange bug while working on this tractor and there is NO cure. You can ease the symptoms by buying more orange and you will need to buy on a regular basis to keep it at bay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 8:05am
Glad it's back workin and with no major damage. Now you'll need to start a garden to keep her busy, so you need a plow and cultivator for her.
 She also needs a name:)
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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xrishansen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xrishansen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 8:11am
Anybody know how to post a photo on here? I'd like to show you all some pictures, but I don't see how.
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irlbeck A-C'S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irlbeck A-C'S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 8:56am
To post a pic, go to Post Reply, click on symbol that looks like a tree. click browse to find a pic on your computer. upload  the pic. you will need to change the numbers in the height and width to resize the pic. There are other ways besides that, probably easier too. Some  use photobucket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allis g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 9:43am
My b was parked for 16 years when I got it. We winched it up on the trailer, when I split the tractor I found out why the clutch wouldn't disengage. The bell housing was packed full of mud dauber nests.!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 12:40pm
howdy Jeff! ain't seen ya fer awhile...hope ever thing is goin good for ya!
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