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Dean (West MI) 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: West Michigan
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 Topic: Adding live and independent hydraulics to B, C, CA
Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 5:18pm |
Here are a few pictures of a Gresen Hydraulic TB12 Vane Pump, rated for 12 GPM , 1500 PSI at 1200 RPM, maximum RPM 1800, mounted on my Allis Chalmers B to give it live and independent hydraulics. The same setup would also work on a C or CA. This pump required some modifications in order for it to mount up, I'd recommend finding either a M&W 1PX or 202 PX pump, commonly found on Farmall tractors as they will bolt up without any modifications. Specs on the M&W are around 12 GPM at 1,000 PSI, around 1650 RPM. The control valve is from an Allis Chalmers I600 loader and features up, down, hold, and float. The other handle is for a rear remote. It also has the power beyond feature, maybe someday I'll add a hydraulic top link and side link. :-) Additionally, the lines from the valve that controls the 3-point ram can be disconnected in case another remote is needed. I also retained the OEM high pressure, low volume hydraulic system that feeds through a stock selector valve and into two quick couplers, that way I can still use the AC 200 disc or other high pressure, low volume system with one way rams.
I tried to keep everything clean looking, but would love to hear any opinions on improving the design. One thing I would change is to make the hydraulic reservoir longer, stopping just before the clutch inspection cover, and not as deep to maintain ground clearance.
I'll try to get a video to upload.
    
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Dean (West MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: West Michigan
Points: 1282
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 5:25pm |
[TUBE]http://youtu.be/AXcCFTh9SGg[/TUBE]
Edited by Dean (West MI) - 30 Jun 2014 at 6:03pm
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sandman2234
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Location: Jax
Points: 2547
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 5:46pm |
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Nice job! That is one sweet looking B!
David from jax
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A proud member of the Allis Express movement!
Northeast Florida
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 5:50pm |
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You'll have to change the video setting to something other than "Private" so that we can view it. The pictures look nice though!
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Chuck(ONT)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario
Points: 1055
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 6:28pm |
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Nice set up.
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Never take life too seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway!
1C 1 WD45 1 AC180
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Bill Long
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bel Air, MD
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 6:35pm |
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GREAT JOB!! Hard to believe a classic tractor now has live HYD.
I also add my thanks on on BEAUTIFUL!! B.
My favorite looks GREAT!!
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Nathan (SD)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Day County SD
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Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 8:40pm |
I would have used a smaller valve and smaller hoses. Just to cut down on the bulky look. I always wondered about a resovoir in the torque tube. Like a 4 in pipe with a 2 inch pipe welded inside for the shaft to go through and capped off, ports out the bottom. Just some thoughts.
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SteveC(NS)
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Points: 663
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 5:23am |
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Dean, glad to see you got her hooked up and working, nice install!
Going to a longer tank would help but I don't see the need for more ground clearance, looking at your front axle weight and rear drawbar bracket, unless you're planning to use underslung attachments.
I wish I had written down the GPM output of my front mounted pump, I'd like to change to a dist. mounted pump but I don't want to loose gpms for my loader.
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B26240
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Location: mn
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 6:40am |
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VERY VERY nice job on the modifications !! With all the older tractors out there that would benifit from live hyd. you would think some companywould jump on the prospect and start making up a system for sale.
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Stan IL&TN
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Location: Elvis Land
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 7:19am |
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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juztyn00
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Location: Mt. Vernon, IL
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 10:05am |
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Great job and glad you got it all working. That's the heaviest looking B I think I've ever seen. One thing I would do is check the welds on the three point lift arm. Mine broke once due to poor weld penetration. Luckily I wasn't under it when it let go. With that much wieght on the front you might find other weak points but I bet the front stays down.
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playsindirt
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Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Location: west michigan
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 10:13am |
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Nice job Dean. I would like to see it in person someday. We should get together i can also bring Matt Simon.
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48G 49B 67D15 35picker allcrop60 1973 rotobaler 49C
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Dean (West MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: West Michigan
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 6:09pm |
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback and tips on making it better, I really appreciate it!
One thing that I carry on the 3-point is a large spreader, when loaded is around 1,100 pounds, that's why I went with so much weight on the front. My manure spreader requires hydraulics to run the apron, so it was either purchase another tractor or modify this one. Since this tractor has been in the family since it was new, 1943, and was the tractor I was raised on, I'd rather just keep this one and raise my daughter on it.
If you guys think of anything else, post it here or feel free to PM me as I am always in another project.
Edited by Dean (West MI) - 01 Jul 2014 at 6:14pm
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offdutyangler
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Location: Madison WI
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 5:00pm |
The hydraulics! and all 4 wheel weights! Very nice.
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1941 "WC" and a 1976 712h
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Bonny Lad Farms
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Joined: 16 Sep 2015
Location: Labadie, MO.
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 12:28pm |
Dean, Could you help with a bit of information about your hydraulic conversion? I have '53 CA and want to convert to live hydraulics. The M&W pumps you've referenced are not very easy to find. I was wondering what kind of modifications were needed to use the Gresen Hydraulic TB12 Vane Pump? I'm an old mechanic by trade, but I don't really speak the language of hydraulics very well. My objective in my conversion is to raise and lower my brush hog and back blade. Nothing too crazy. Regards, Steve
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KY
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Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Location: Kentucky
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 1:43pm |
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Could this conversion work on a WD 45 or D 17 as well?
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Kenny L.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: NEIOWA
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 7:17pm |
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Yes on the wd or wd45 I'm not sure about the 17, have one on my Dad wd Kenny L.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 7:19pm |
 KY wrote:
Could this conversion work on a WD 45 or D 17 as well?
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YES !
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j.w.freck
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: karnack texas
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Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 11:39am |
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would that installation work on a wd-45 with power steering?i have searched all over and cannot find a pump for factory power steering.....
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 1:57pm |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you need the flange that would have been used with a magneto, right?
WD-45 and D-17 would not have had that. You would have to get that from a WC or WD to use this.
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dt1050
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Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 2:38pm |
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I was just about to make a new post asking if it was possible to use my front mounted hydro pump for my loader to run my 3pt hitch. guess so...lol
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Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Dean (West MI)
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Location: West Michigan
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Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 8:21pm |
Bonny Lad Farms wrote:
Dean, Could you help with a bit of information about your hydraulic conversion?I have '53 CA and want to convert to live hydraulics. The M&W pumps you've referenced are not very easy to find. I was wondering what kind of modifications were needed to use the Gresen Hydraulic TB12 Vane Pump? I'm an old mechanic by trade, but I don't really speak the language of hydraulics very well. My objective in my conversion is to raise and lower my brush hog and back blade. Nothing too crazy. Regards, Steve |
The mounting tabs had to be cut off and moved so that they were parallel to the block. Additionally, material on the back side of the pump had to be removed to allow for clearance between the pump and block. All in all doable, but it would be easier if you can find an M&W pump. As for parts, I called Gresen and they sent me out a rebuild kit for my pump for free. They have great customer service.
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Srudd
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Joined: 04 Oct 2021
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Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 8:35am |
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Where did you get your pump at? The only tb12 I’m finding online has the ports both on the bottom of the pump
Edited by Srudd - 05 Oct 2021 at 8:41am
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mdm1
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Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 7:59pm |
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That gets a WHOA BABY!!!! Looks super nice.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 3:21pm |
Dean (West MI) wrote:
Here are a few pictures of a Gresen Hydraulic TB12 Vane Pump, rated for 12 GPM , 1500 PSI at 1200 RPM... |
Nice setup!  Just curious as to what RPM does the governor actually turn (and therefore the pump); the distributor turns at 1/2 engine speed but I'm not certain what the gear train ratios are.
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