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i60 
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Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Location: ny
Points: 22
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 Topic: starter solenoid relay question
Posted: 22 Dec 2023 at 6:03pm |
I had a shop install new field windings in my Delco starter for a diesel i60 / d15 the wires from the fields looked burnt and were stiff and i think they made the starter weak It now has all new parts inside, field windings, armature, brushes, cables, etc.
the shop installed the flat copper strap from the 3 wire type solenoid relay on the bottom post of the solenoid relay but it would have put the battery cable connection in the wrong spot/ on top when the starter is installed in the backhoe
so I just moved the the copper strap to the opposite post on the solenoid relay
the starter works great but every now and then the relay does not dis-engage and the starter continues to run
when stuck running I whacked the relay and it released and the starter stopped running
I wonder now if it could be sticking because I switched/reversed the solenoid relay's post connections?
I now see that an old solenoid relay I had in my barn has one post that is marked Bat.
I did not notice if the new solenoid had any "Bat." post mark on it when I moved the copper strap, could reversing the cable post connections cause the solenoid to stick occasionally ? or is the new solenoid relay just be a faulty part?
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85040
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Posted: 22 Dec 2023 at 6:57pm |
On a 3 wire, the two BIG LUGS are for the battery and starter cables. The should not be connected to / or shorted to anything else... so it does not make a difference which one is which..... The SMALL terminal is HOT and gets power from the key.. the CASE of the solenoid is the ground and must be mounted to the tractor frame / engine / starter case..
If you had a 4 wire ( two small terminals), then one of them is START and one is RUN and you have to get the RIGHT wire on the right small terminal..
I think you got a sticky solenoid ... might have a burnt contact inside.
Edited by steve(ill) - 22 Dec 2023 at 7:00pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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i60
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Location: ny
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Posted: 22 Dec 2023 at 9:13pm |
thank for the reply, yes, it is the two BIG LUGS that I was questioning I swapped the copper strap from a lug to the starter I was not sure if the current's flow direction mattered between them
it is not my starter button switch, I can turn power off to it by turning the key off (which I have done when the starter was stuck running)
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 23 Dec 2023 at 4:14am |
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Generally a sticking solenoid is caused by low voltage at the relay, itself. Make sure to check battery, all wires and connections for corrosion/resistance to flow...
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i60
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Location: ny
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Posted: 23 Dec 2023 at 11:17pm |
 thanks to the above for your insights,
I did some searching and found a video on relays that is very interesting so I will post it for others with solenoid relay issues I never knew there are various types of solenoid relay and that the Bat. and starter terminals may need to be connected "as marked" (I reversed the 2 heavy current input / output load terminal connections as stated above and this may be the issue?)
the relays near the end of this vid. look the same as what is mounted to my AC i60 starter
I do not see a way to add a video into this page so here is a link for anyone interested;
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 6:23am |
As others have said on a 3 terminal relay, it doesn't matter which of the 2 big lugs goes to the starter or battery. Now what DOES matter is the current rating of the relay !!! It HAS to be rated for more than the starter 'draws'. Say starter needs 150 amps, relay (aka solenoid) should be rated for 200 amps. There's a LOT of cheap Chinese 'starter' relays around that are sold but only rated for 100 amps.Might ( MIGHT ) work a few times,but soon the contacts get pitted,arc,spark, and fuse into one bar of copper. Steve @ B&B probably KNOWS how many amps the starter draws.Hopefully he'll let us all know. Now one 'cheat' is to use a '6 volt starter' relay. It's good for x2 the amps that a 12v starter relay is BUT you need to wire a resistor in series with the 'control' wire to drop your battery volts down to 6.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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DMiller
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Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 6:54am |
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Even worse some solenoids have a Seal In coil, require a break in that circuit to disengage. Have to be extremely careful of Looks Tge Same parts.
Side note, on many solenoid operated engine shut offs, the solenoids are energized with a Pull In winding, many of these have a Seal In or Hold low amp winding triggered as slide shaft reaches Bottom, if does not get to full stroke will overheat and fail.
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
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Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 9:45am |
All the information the guys supplied is excellent. Your issue might be as simple as the Solenoid not being grounded properly. Not grounded properly will do what your situation is doing. As Jay mentioned, amperage ratings are super important mating solenoids to their load. Diesel Starters draw a lot more amperage than a gas Starter, so mating up the correct solenoid is super important! It's the same principal mating up a voltage regulator with the Alternator and the current rating of the system. A lot of folks use a universal VR for their charging systems. Some of those "universal" VR's can't cut it if the system has a higher value of current and load requirements. The VR is doomed to fail quickly. Same for the Starter Solenoids. Clean the paint off the Starter where the solenoid is mounted and see what it does. If it still hangs, run an aux. ground to the Battery or to a good clean chassis or engine block ground and try it. If it's still hanging up, check the amperage rating on the solenoid itself. I would think the shop that rebuilt the unit, should've mated the correct solenoid to the unit... HTH Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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