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A Day That Will Live in Infamy

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JoeM(GA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeM(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Day That Will Live in Infamy
    Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 1:17pm
So sad, I watched the news both this morning and at noon, not even a mention of "the day we'll never forget" one of the darkest and deadliest in American history. Sadly we no longer teach history, or learn from it. My Dad fought in both WWII and Korea and he taught us about remembering those who fought and died for the freedom we may loose one day if we're not careful.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 1:40pm
Asked a Kid what he knew of Dec 7th 1941, he had NO clue.
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tadams(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 2:03pm
Sad isn't it.

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Ky.Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 2:05pm
I'm right there with you Joe. My father fought in the same war. Unfortunately, all that matters now days to many is "Trans, Gays and Immigrants". Wouldn't our parents/grandparents be proud. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 3:19pm
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Dan Hauter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Hauter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 3:44pm
My dad joined the U.S. Navy in June of 1942, when he turned 18. He served on active duty until August of 1946 & was in the reserves until 1956. Dad remembered his ship sailing into Pearl Harbor for the 1st time & seeing battle ships still smoking. There were no survivors to be rescued by then so the Navy turned its efforts toward projects that were more important. December 7 was always solemnly remembered in our house. I agree that history, along with geography and civics are no longer taught in U.S. schools. What a tragedy! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Asked a Kid what he knew of Dec 7th 1941, he had NO clue.

That's really sad, I didn't know per-se but didn't take much to guess a few lines into reading the first post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 6:57pm
Some history to note- FDR's speech for that address was NOT written by any of his speechwriters... he dictated it directly, and there was only ONE edit:

He originally wrote it as "A day that will live in history".

He replaced the word HISTORY with INFAMY.

It was after this address to Congress, and it's radio broadcast across the country, that Winston Churchill made a request to FDR, to allow something that had never been allowed before-  To allow a foriegn dignitary to make an address to a joint meeting of the United States Congress.

The request was made well-prior TO December 7th, it was not until AFTER the attach that FDR acquiesced.

A few other facts:

US signals intelligence was generally aware of the impending attack- they had been monitoring IJN radio traffic, and had figured out that there was a plan of some sort afoot.

The radar station on the east side of the island detected the incoming attach sortie, but had initially thought it an incoming group of US aircraft.  Once they'd realized what it was, relay of the contact over to the harbor command was not taken particularly seriously.

In Washington, the Japanese counselate was well aware that there would be an attack.  They were actively participating in negotiations, but it was a facade-  they were instructed to do so as a delay measure.  They were to deliver a declaration of war in such a way as to make the notification just a few minutes before the actual attack, but due to a variety of factors, the declaration deliverly didn't occur until AFTER.

Admiral Yamamoto was the key planner of the attack, but he did so in protest.  As a diplomatic attache, he had been to the US many times, travelled about, and even studied in American schools.  His English was very good, his understanding of aviation and naval engineering was exceptional, and he understood resources very well.  He made it very clear to the IJN command that Japan could NOT hope to 'win', the best they could do, is attack hard, take control of the pacific resources, and HOPE that the US would sue for peace, but he identified very clearly that the 'best' they could expect, is that the IJN would have control of the pacific theatre for about 18 months or so, after which, the tide would turn.

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britian I will run wild and win victory upon victory.  But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success"

   He advised against the attack, but higher powers within the IJN, as well as the IJ Army, did not agree with his assessment.  From an internal perspective, Yamamoto was a 'marked man'...  he was very disliked by the Imperial Japanese Army leadership.  There was a natural rift between the army and navy... that rift was probably one of the greatest weaknesses affecting Japan's capacity... right along with resource limitiations.   IF Yamamoto had not been sent to sea to be a naval commander... if he'd been kept home to be a command figure on the home islands, he would have been assassinated by political operators within the Imperial Japanese Army... Most likely, under the direct order of  Tojo. 

Many will be familiar with a short note he passed to one of his contemporaries immediately after the attack:
"I believe we have awakened a sleeping giant"


It was a terrible attack, and later in the war, he was removed from the war by a very well planned and executed air action.  He was a very intelligent man, and like Robert E. Lee, I believe that he really, really didn't want to have anything to do with war.

Here's a few more notable (and quite eloquent) quotes that illustrate his disposition:

"A brilliant man would find a way to NOT fight a war."  (after being complimented on the brilliance of his attack plan).

"A military man can scarcely prid himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'- it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten.  I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack.

"The mindless rejoicing at home is really appalling- it makes me fear that the first blow against Tokyo will make them wilt at once...  I only wish that [the USA] had aklso had, say, three carriers at Hawaii"  (this was excellent foreshadowing, when 16 B25 bombers lifted off the Hornet and introduced Tokyo to their first taste of American ire)

Follow this with notes on Emporer Hirohito, who was villified on our side of the ocean... a young boy when the title fell upon him... he became Tojo's puppet.  He was actually a pacifist, but due to Tojo's muscle organization, Hirohito didn't actually command any power.  It wasn't until after the war had been going on for quite some time, and the young men weren't coming back home, that the 'middle management' of Japan started to pull away from Tojo's grip.  At that point, he was constantly avoiding Tojo's dagger... right up to the end, there were factions trying to assasinate Hirohito, particularly to prevent his address to be broadcast to the people of Japan to cease all fighting. 

Here's a few quotes that paint a good picture of who that man was:

[re. the 'success' of extending their influence across the pacific]
"The fruits of victory are tumbling into our mouths too quickly"

[After the war, on explaining the key difference between cultures:]
"They [Americans] do not depend upon mere legends and myths.  They are not predicated on the false conception that the Emporor is Divine and that the Japanese people are superior to other races"

[re. terms of unconditional surrender, to his own people:]
"We have resolved to endure the unendurable, and suffer what is insufferable"
"I made efforts to swallow tears and to protect the species of the Japanese nation."

After the war:
"You can't imagine how much more work I had, when I was a god"

"All men are brothers, like the seas throughout the world- so why do winds and waves clash so fiercely everywhere?"

War is a terrible, terrible thing.  When diplomats fail, soldiers prevail... but the price is gruesome.

We must study hour history to the greatest detail, so that the lessons we learned THEN, are not forgotten, and repeated.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 7:29pm
I too thought about this day of infamy for the past several days. Dad was a Naval fighter pilot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 10:01pm
As Commander of our local AMVETS, we hold a program every year on the Sunday close to the 7th. of December. The event begins with the Pledge of allegiance to our flag. I try to have a few choice words to share and we honor a few of our own vets that have passed away. I list the name, military branch, dob and dod along with any other military history I can find for the individual. This year we honor a vet that passed who served in the Army at Fort Hood TX at the same time as Elvis Presley. They went through boot camp together. With the faster rate of departure of our aging vets, the funerals have been many and our ranks are diminished. We have our Color Guard fire a rifle salute followed by taps. The ladies serve coffee and cookies as we share a time of fellowship after the program. I take a large wreath to the cemetery and place it on the Veterans Monument. Post #30 has done this for many years. As long as I am able, we will honor this date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 1:15pm
     Dad always called our attention to 7 December when we were growing up. I looked for something about the date on 3 different news outlets and found nothing. Wondering, do they have The Pledge of Allegiance in schools any more? In grade shcool we had The Lord's Prayer as well. Public school.
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Allis dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 8:50pm
STORY Television was running all Pearl Harbor shows leading up to Dec 7
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