(another) B Starting problems

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   uploads/25308/AllisChalmersB.jpg
Hello all - First time posting (new account also) - have followed a lot of great discussion/advice/troubleshooting here over the last few years. Thank You
I inherited a 1948 B Allis Chalmers (6V, magneto, father in law had it -ve ground - I know they are +ve ground, have not switched it yet) - tractor usually started well with a quick choke, would hear it pop, shut choke off and it would fire up. It would have issues restating though if I ran it a while, shut it down.  Would need to wait 15-30 minutes, re-choke it and it would fire, shut off choke and it would start.  Tractor is on a woodlot in Canada and stays out of the weather when not in use.  

In September it was running as described above then I shut it down but have not been able to get it started again.  Tried the above and no luck.  I was able to get it back in the shed (towing, winching) and have pulled the carb and sediment bowl, cleaned them thoroughly (carb kit),  new plugs with spark.  I have not opened the magneto yet.  I have a video so you can hear it but i don't think I can attach it here? I attached a picture for reference but you all have seen a thousand of these...  It sounds like it should fire up, just something has changed.  When choke is off it does not sound like it will start.  I tried some quick start ether spray as well and it chugs (sounds like it will start) but does not start.  Have not tried a bump start yet - not sure if that would do it.

Any help appreciated - I'm guessing it flooding but I can't seem to find a combo that it will start. I'm also wondering if it could be a grounding/short issue? I opened the ignition box to examine it and did not see anything. I did update the wire connector to the magneto (shut off) also as the wires were fraying.  This is a hobby tractor so I take all of this as part of the education, which I am enjoying.

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
stockcalc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 18 Nov 2024 Location: Canada Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote stockcalc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: (another) B Starting problems Posted: 18 Nov 2024 at 3:09pm
	uploads/25308/AllisChalmersB.jpg Hello all - First time posting (new account also) - have followed a lot of great discussion/advice/troubleshooting here over the last few years. Thank You I inherited a 1948 B Allis Chalmers (6V, magneto, father in law had it -ve ground - I know they are +ve ground, have not switched it yet) - tractor usually started well with a quick choke, would hear it pop, shut choke off and it would fire up. It would have issues restating though if I ran it a while, shut it down. Would need to wait 15-30 minutes, re-choke it and it would fire, shut off choke and it would start. Tractor is on a woodlot in Canada and stays out of the weather when not in use. In September it was running as described above then I shut it down but have not been able to get it started again. Tried the above and no luck. I was able to get it back in the shed (towing, winching) and have pulled the carb and sediment bowl, cleaned them thoroughly (carb kit), new plugs with spark. I have not opened the magneto yet. I have a video so you can hear it but i don't think I can attach it here? I attached a picture for reference but you all have seen a thousand of these... It sounds like it should fire up, just something has changed. When choke is off it does not sound like it will start. I tried some quick start ether spray as well and it chugs (sounds like it will start) but does not start. Have not tried a bump start yet - not sure if that would do it. Any help appreciated - I'm guessing it flooding but I can't seem to find a combo that it will start. I'm also wondering if it could be a grounding/short issue? I opened the ignition box to examine it and did not see anything. I did update the wire connector to the magneto (shut off) also as the wires were fraying. This is a hobby tractor so I take all of this as part of the education, which I am enjoying.

Sponsored Links

steve(ill) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81297	Post Options Post Reply Quote steve(ill) Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 2024 at 8:03pm
	well, if you got spark, that leads to believe it is fuel related... Since it does fire on ether ( but does not run) , that also leads one to believe it is fuel related... Could be one jet is plugged so it does not suck up gas and hard starting.. Heavy chocking is another sign that the carburetor has a plugge jet. I know you have cleaned it, but it may need the jets removed, cleaned, blow out with air, rod thru the holes with a torch tip cleaner.. etc... Everything you said lead to believe it still has a carburetor problem.
	Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Gary Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Peterborough,On Points: 5399	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gary Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 2024 at 8:24pm
	If it were mine, first thing I would do is make sure that the "fresh" gas in the Fuel Tank is getting all the way through the elbow at the Carb. Different spots along the way that gas could be blocked. Next after that check would be the Air Flow through the Breather. G

Eric B Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 953	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric B Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 2024 at 9:44pm
	This may not be your issue but I'll share it as a possibility. One year when I had my '48 B up at our bush property from spring to fall, I was using it off and on as needed but the same tank of gas essentially. It started OK when I put it on the trailer for home at the onset of fall. At home I went to start it later when the temperature was just under +4 C (39 F) and it refused to even give a single 'puff'. To my surprise it had spark (battery ignition). I drained the tank and the carb, put in fresh gas and it started immediately. I was most amazed. The tractor having been in the sun all summer made the gas evaporate away essential aspects needed for a lower compression engine to start. This was confirmed as I consulted the expertise from guys that are into car racing. Since then, when I can't park my tractors away from the sun I generally cover the tank with a piece of plywood to keep the tank cooler. When I suspect questionable gas in tractors when fall comes and I know I will need trouble free starting in the real cold of winter, I drain the gas, put it in a can marked 'summer gas'. It's still OK for use the following summer.
	Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!

steve(ill) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81297	Post Options Post Reply Quote steve(ill) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 2024 at 10:24pm
	Gary idea of checking the air flow is a good idea... I had a wasp build a mud nest INSIDE The air cleaner top cap and restrict air flow to the air cleaner... Always ran like i had the CHOKE on.....
	Like them all, but love the "B"s.

stockcalc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 18 Nov 2024 Location: Canada Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote stockcalc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 6:15am
	Thank you all - great forum. Very helpful I agree it sounds like fuel - am wondering about the float and needle value also I have drained the fuel a few times (when taking off sediment bowl) and am using fresh fuel (purchased this summer, stored in a cool shed) I will take the carb off again - I did take the jets out, cleaned but will try that again Ill check air flow through the breather as well - good suggestion Tractor is at the woodlot so I will be up again on the weekend, get carb, clean during the week and return following weekend to reinstall. Once the heavy snow hits I can't drive down the hill - need to snowshoe in then (am in Eastern Canada)

Les Kerf Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 787	Post Options Post Reply Quote Les Kerf Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 8:50am
	Random issues I have encountered causing poor/non starting with my Allis Model C: Magneto impulse not 'clicking', causing the effective timing to be early; it can still give a spark but at the wrong time. If you have the ability to hand-crank, check for spark and listen for the tell-tale clicking of the magneto. Champion spark plugs. 'Nuff said. Restricted air flow through the oil bath air cleaner. While parked outside, rain water leaked into the oil cup, the emulsified solution then froze into the consistency of ice cream. Water in the fuel. Cranking too fast by using 12 volts on a 6 volt starter. My Model C refuses to start when the throttle is too far open. With the throttle lever set in the second notch it fires up almost instantly.

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11820	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 10:36am
	Disconnect your Mag kill switch and see if it starts. Could be the switch itself going to ground on occasions. If you disconnect the switch and it fires right up, there's your culprit. Happens quite often. Check fuel flow from the tank to the Carburetor. Disconnect the line at the Carb, open the petcock on the sediment bulb and catch the fuel in a clean jar or container. Let it flow for a few minutes and see if it slows down or stops, and then all of a sudden it starts again. If so, it's a fuel delivery problem and not neccessarily the Carburetor itself. As for the Mag, when was the last time it was tuned up? The points may be getting oxidation on them due to a failing gasket or just age. Condenser will play havoc like that as well. If the Mag has the old style tar taped Coil in it, it could be leaking and grounding out on the inside of the Mag housing. Replace the old tar taped Coil with the newer Epoxy Coil whether the Coil is bad or not. Those old tar taped Coils were the pits! Steve@B&B
	39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife

stockcalc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 18 Nov 2024 Location: Canada Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote stockcalc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 1:04pm
	Thank you - all on the to check list now

stockcalc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 18 Nov 2024 Location: Canada Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote stockcalc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 1:09pm
	I did try disconnecting the mag kill switch - was thinking it might be that as well but it did not fix the issue. Have checked fuel flow at sediment bowl, end of copper tube to carb and bottom of carb - fuel flows well all points there Mag has not been tuned in a while - I am holding off on that for now as its new territory for me and tractor is in a small shed, 20 miles from my house. I was hoping to do a number of jobs like that (mag, starter, generator, wiring...) in my garage at home but I need the tractor running first. (steep hill to the cabin/woodlot, low trailer, need to drive tractor to access point) Thank you again.