| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
7040 
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Location: newglarus wi
Points: 418
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: pics of d21from min. with detroit
Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 7:43pm |
|
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DougG
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 8108
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 8:20pm |
|
Wow ingenuity got the hyd pump on there! Nice tractor tho
|
|
cornbinder
Orange Level
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: jeromesville,oh
Points: 846
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 3:03am |
|
wow, what more can I say
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 4916
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 8:18am |
Well, I'm not sure what engine that is, but I am sure it's not a 6-71, or any 2 cycle Detroit. Thinking it may be a 516 AC/Buda that was supercharged. Just noticed, it is also turbo-charged too. A 2 cycle detroit is not supercharged, the blower simply performs the scavenging/purging. I think I would try keeping that engine in there and restoring that way, if they did a nice job with it at least. That may hold some real historical value!
Edited by injpumpEd - 19 Aug 2013 at 8:20am
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
DarrylinWA
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Amarillo Texas
Points: 1898
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 8:53pm |
|
They even did that to a series 1 tractor. I saw the hood and the 6 lug front end. What is the serial number on that? I would keep it in there also. Thanks for sharing, Darryl
Edited by DarrylinWA - 19 Aug 2013 at 8:54pm
|
|
B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling.
|
|
7040
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Location: newglarus wi
Points: 418
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 9:28pm |
|
my dad also believes it to be a series one because of the 6 bolt hubs I will post serialnumber at a later date but neither of us were sure if any series ones were turbocharged we had one that wasn't also I will
look again for any# on motor injpump says Cummings on it alternator bracket says white motor is stuck oilpan is cracked (cast alum)it wont be scraped without being opend up
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 4916
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 10:20pm |
 7040 wrote:
my dad also believes it to be a series one because of the 6 bolt hubs I will post serialnumber at a later date but neither of us were sure if any series ones were turbocharged we had one that wasn't also I will
look again for any# on motor injpump says Cummings on it alternator bracket says white motor is stuck oilpan is cracked (cast alum)it wont be scraped without being opend up |
There was some supercharged Cummins engines in those days too. post some close up pics of the other side too. All series I are non turbo originally, series II were all turbo, that is the difference. Lots of the series I were converted to turbo, there was a kit available from AC.
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
Dipstick In
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Remington, In.
Points: 8602
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 12:36am |
Ed I think that is an old inline two cycle. And I dont see a turbine. The thing on the back of the supercharger is the water pump. There were Detroits made with blowers and turbos, they were the Silver series. They used a blower to charge and scavenge, and a turbo to "pack" the blower. I had a V-6 92 Silver rated at 350 hp, and it pulled more like a four cycle with that set-up, plus it helped the milage. It was in the first series of computers, called D-dact, I think, and were a PIA when the 'puter sensed wierd stuff. It would shut the truck down, or idle it, usually when you needed power. Mine was famous for throwing a low water lite and cutting power when it got a quart or two low on water. Never did find out where the water went.
Prior to this series, with the old "71" series, there were both V-8's and 6's made with blowers and trubos. I think back in the fifties/early sixties. Dont remember the V-8 hp, but I think the six was a 305 hp engine. They didn't make them too long, but I don't know why.
|
|
You don't really have to be smart if you know who is!
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 6:03am |
|
detroits dont have injection pumps
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
Orange Blood
Orange Level
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 7:55am |
|
Well, if I dare chime in on this one. We have a detroit inline 6 out of a concrete truck, from maybe the 70s sitting at the farm. While I cannot remember if it is the same as this engine, it looks similar. I do agree however that it does look like a cummings injection pump on the back of the air compressor. I will take a look at the Detroit we have on the farm in a couple of months.
|
|
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 4916
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 8:10am |
Dipstick In wrote:
Ed I think that is an old inline two cycle. And I dont see a turbine. The thing on the back of the supercharger is the water pump. There were Detroits made with blowers and turbos, they were the Silver series. They used a blower to charge and scavenge, and a turbo to "pack" the blower. I had a V-6 92 Silver rated at 350 hp, and it pulled more like a four cycle with that set-up, plus it helped the milage. It was in the first series of computers, called D-dact, I think, and were a PIA when the 'puter sensed wierd stuff. It would shut the truck down, or idle it, usually when you needed power. Mine was famous for throwing a low water lite and cutting power when it got a quart or two low on water. Never did find out where the water went.
Prior to this series, with the old "71" series, there were both V-8's and 6's made with blowers and trubos. I think back in the fifties/early sixties. Dont remember the V-8 hp, but I think the six was a 305 hp engine. They didn't make them too long, but I don't know why. |
oh, I'm full aware that there were 2 cycle Detroits with turbos as well as the blower. I'm saying that is NOT a detroit. Yes, you are right, after looking more at the pics, the exh pipe is bolted to the exhaust manifold like a turbo, but it's a straight shot up, so I think it's just the pipe. The dead giveaway for me is the intake manifold. The blower bolts right to the center of the block on all the inline 2-cycle jimmy's. That supercharger is an accessory to that engine, not part of it like a jimmy as well.
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
Breeze
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ga
Points: 8931
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 10:27am |
|
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2484
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 5:19pm |
|
It is not d-dact,it is ddec. It stands for Detroit Diesel Electronic Control. It sure looks like I supercharged cummins to me. Inline detroits had the blower more tothe center of the block, I don't see the air box covers, and most detroits were rear gear train, meaning the compressor would be on the back of the motor
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
Lee (MN)
Bronze Level
Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Location: East central MN
Points: 116
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 5:54pm |
It's a Cummins, do not recall the model, we had one on the truck side of an American Hoist truck crane at work, mid 60's vintage, never seen another till here. Lee 
|
|
B212
912
Willy's Jeeps
Gleaner K
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2484
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 7:03pm |
|
NHS I do believe is the model
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 8:31pm |
stole this from the net...
1952 Cummins Op & Maintenance manual (Bulletin No. 63333-B) lists (and provides pics of) the following supercharged engines: - HS-600: 672ci, 14:1 CR, 200hp @ 1800;
- HRS-600: 743ci, 13.5:1 CR, 225hp @ 1800;
- NHS-600: 743ci, 13.5:1 CR, 275hp @ 2100; and
- NHRS-600: 743ci, 12:1 CR, 300hp @ 2100.
All of the above have geartrain driven superchargers. H denotes 2 valves per cyl., NH 4 (no "B", of course). The supercharger casings are different from the belt driven one ##### posted, for what it's worth. Also - and I'm quite happy to be corrected on this - I think the blocks had high Nickel content on them. |
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
Dipstick In
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Remington, In.
Points: 8602
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 10:31pm |
|
Thanks Don and Cal. I haven't been around a two cycle(except for the 6 V-92 in my 87 GMC General) since the late 70- early 80's and that's a long time for my short term memory. I do remember the JT 150 Cummins( I think I'm right) that I had in the Army as generator power with superchargers. But I think they had a "rail" system of sending fuel to the block instead of individual lines. And that was prior to discharge on Feb. 1965.
Edited by Dipstick In - 20 Aug 2013 at 10:34pm
|
|
You don't really have to be smart if you know who is!
|
|
DougG
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 8108
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 4:29am |
|
How does that fuel system work? The 80,ish old Ford boomtrucks at work have an Ford diesel engine but no visable injection pump and lines?
|
|
wi50
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: weegieland
Points: 1010
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 6:58am |
|
A friend has an old crane, I'm guessing mid 50's to mid 60's vintage. It's got 2 Cummins engines in it and I think I rember seeing the owners manuel when we went to get it. The engine sure looked similar from what I rember. It's been several years but I'll stop in and see if it's still around or if it went for scrap.
|
|
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
|
|
TramwayGuy
Orange Level Access
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: Northern NY
Points: 11445
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 2:49pm |
|
Looks to me like a regular Cummins 'PT' [Pressure Time] system. Actually a little similar to newer 'common rail' in newer engines. In the PT system, the rail pressure varied and changed the amount that the injectors put into the cylinders. One injector per cylinder, driven off the camshaft and sits between the valves. Worked pretty well for many years.
|
|
Dipstick In
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Remington, In.
Points: 8602
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 3:05pm |
At the time I had an inline 6-71 Detroit, I had a 220 Cummins with PT injection(I think). There was a supply pump as Tram said, and it contained the govenor and "rack". By opening up the pump, you could place extra shims under a spring, and there was a "button"( it really looked more like a tick thimble) that could be replaced. This supplied extra fuel/and or pressure which increased the horsepower(and smoke factor and fire out of the pipe). I wound up with something like 2400 rpm's and about a foot and a half of flame, but it certainly pulled harder. This was in the days when if you ran over roadkill, or it rained, (seriously, a wet road we considered cost up to 10-15 hp)you had to drop a gear!
On the Detroits, the injectors came in differing calibrations and by changing the settings when adjusting them to the camshaft stroke, they could be made much more responsive and gain some extra power from the factory settings.
The 220, maybe an NTC? designation had three cylinder heads if I remember right, and the picture only has one I think.
Lord, that's a long time ago!!!!!
|
|
You don't really have to be smart if you know who is!
|
|
Orange Blood
Orange Level
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 9:35pm |
Dipstick,
Boy do you bring back the memories. We had freighshakers with the old 220s in them, and you sure could play with them. We really thought we had something when stepping up to the 235, I think they were. Those old engines made a gear shifting fool out of you, these 500HP+ Cats, and 600 HP+ Detroits, they spoil a guy rotten, why I remember dad pulling a Cat 583 pipelayer on tripple tripples weighing in at around 105, to 110 gross pulling hills with a 235 and a 13 speed, don't remember the rear ratio, but that made you sit up and take notice. Ah those were the days before the EPA, and all the other bull.
|
|
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
|
|
7040
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Location: newglarus wi
Points: 418
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 10:25pm |
thanks for the info guys i learn something new every day 
|
|
Dipstick In
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Remington, In.
Points: 8602
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 10:48pm |
|
Lord, Orange, you're right about Memory Lane! I was smokiing a cigarette on the proch and got to thinking bout your reply, and remembering those old trucks and stuff. What I can't figger out is why we remember that stuff so well, and I'll be in the grocery, trying my darnedest to recall if it was milk or bread I was supposed to get. Usually I get both, then some chips and snacks, maybe some candy, for sure things like pork chops, or a good cut of meat or fish. Then when I get home she has such a fit bout "blowing" her food budget(with my money) that I get away with it. Any more I insist on a written list!
|
|
You don't really have to be smart if you know who is!
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41602
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 11:11pm |
The 4265 White Truck I have also came with a 185 Cummings rather than the 6-200A engine i have , then with a 5x4 transmission one never sat long without having one shift lever or the other in ones hand, Driving with a RT 613 or RTO 613 in present dump trucks makes life easier , then when driving the tractors when driving tankers with a C12 or C13 Cat and a RTO 9513 was a full different feel of when I drove the old stub nose 56 GMC with a 6-71 - 238HP and a RT910
|
|
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
|
|
Leesok
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: OK
Points: 516
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 11:22pm |
|
Was wondering when someone would mention a 5x4. Ever drive a Mack with 237 & 5x3?
|
|
