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wjohn 
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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 Topic: Valve Seat Grinding Stone Recommendations
Posted: 15 May 2020 at 8:13pm |
I bought an old Sioux 645L valve grinder/refacer a couple years back, tore it apart to clean it up, and didn't get it put back together until the other day. My 1951 WD needs some touch up work on the valves and seats (it appears to have seat inserts installed already).
The seat grinder is hiding in the cabinet. My question is - if anyone on here has ground seats in their AC engines before, what type of stone were you using? I am currently planning on ordering some general rough and finish stones since I can't find that AC was using anything like Stellite in the WD-45 and earlier tractors, which is mostly what I have. Figured someone on here might have some experience with what the best types of stones to use are.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8290
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 8:18pm |
John, I would call Bill at Sandy Lake. They might have information about this for you. Regards, |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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john(MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9262
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 4:19pm |
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Last time I did that they were in the head. Bought some abrasive paste stuff and a valve grinding tool and just went down the line. They looked good to me.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81242
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 6:44pm |
john, they have course, medium and fine wheels, just like the paste you use to lap them in to finish... The GRIT you use to CUT the seats or valve faces depends on how BAD they are to start with... Normally you can use a medium or fine wheel and just take a couple thousandths off to true them up.... You do something like cut the valve faces at 45 degrees, then cut the seats in the head at 44 and 46 so you have a line in the center where the valve seats... then you lap it in to get the width of the seal you want... maybe .060 or so... Every engine spec is different, but basically they are all the same.
You can buy wheels of different DIAMETER to fit into the SEAT, so check that... and you can buy them different ANGLES to get the top cut and bottom cut on the SEAT... so verify that.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Kansas99
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Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
Points: 4864
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 8:30pm |
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Exactly what Steve said and I might add that when you grind the seats you’ll know real quick if you need to use a coarse stone. I used a fine stone to start then went aggressively if needed. Not sure about AC but if you hit a soft seat with a finish stone it will clean it right quick if it’s a hard seat you’d be there for ever.
Also that Souix should have a degree mark that is 1 off the (ex 45) degree on both the seat stone cutter and on the valve grinder angle.
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 9:39am |
Thanks for the tips guys. I was reading that seats that are just cut into the cast iron of the head should grind easily with just a finish stone. I have all the manuals for my Sioux stuff and it does a pretty good job of explaining things and calling out stones for specific engines, but with seat inserts installed (presumably harder than the factory seats in the cast iron of the head) they're a bit of an unknown. I do at least have the right stone diameters from that Sioux chart. There are several stone materials now (one for Stellite, one that's ruby, another that's cool blue, etc.) beyond the general purpose rough and finish so I didn't know if anyone had any preferences.
I'll order general purpose rough and finish stones, and get some to cut at 60 or 30 degrees to narrow the seat width if needed. The intake seats look like I can just touch them with the finish stone but I may have to use the rough stone on one or two of the exhaust seats.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 9:40am |
 Kansas99 wrote:
Exactly what Steve said and I might add that when you grind the seats you’ll know real quick if you need to use a coarse stone. I used a fine stone to start then went aggressively if needed. Not sure about AC but if you hit a soft seat with a finish stone it will clean it right quick if it’s a hard seat you’d be there for ever.
Also that Souix should have a degree mark that is 1 off the (ex 45) degree on both the seat stone cutter and on the valve grinder angle. |
Yep, the seat grinder dresser has a 46 degree mark to cut the stones at and the chuck for the valve grinder has a 44 degree mark (and probably the same 1 degree off for 30 degree valves, but I don't have anything with 30 degree valves that I'm aware of so I haven't paid attention). The AC manual just specs 45 degrees for everything while some of my other engine manuals spec the 1 degree interference fit. I may tweak the seats and valves +0.5 and -0.5 degrees just so I'm erring on the "safe" side with tolerances of 45 degrees for both of them.
It'll be a learning experience either way but I figured it's something I should be able to do in house for most of my older engines. New valves are cheap for some engines and not so much for others, and a lot of times the seats aren't so far gone that they need to be replaced.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 4916
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 10:01am |
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look up goodson, they have all kinds of valve grinding stones, and accessories. I prefer the white stones for stellite, since they seem to be backward compatibly, so they will work ok on everything you may encounter. The trick is getting the sizes you need that fit right.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 11:56am |
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Thanks Ed. This time I am going with Woodward/Cylinder Head Supply but did find Goodson, Regis, and Beam Equipment - all seem to be great sources of valve/seat grinding parts. I think it's amazing that these companies are keeping these machines going after Snap-On bought Sioux, shut them down, and abandoned service support.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 8:56pm |
Christmas in May? My grinding stones, fluid, etc. order came in. Guess I better get the valve guides ordered so I can do the seats.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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