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Can B transmission ratios be changed? |
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orangereborn
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NW WI Points: 1424 |
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We moved between farms in 1949 and we had a 1947 C (which my Dad bought new and I just now acquired it) and the neighbor a red "H." Similar loads and soon the "H" was over the horizon. But beyond the horizon were hills and the "C" always arrived first. Never left hi gear. On the humor side, grew up around "bass-ackward", "over the pond" and "cack-le-ber-ry," etc..Starting to hear those publicly referenced again. One, I never knew the logic, but knew what he meant, "couldn"t pull a fart out of a whirl-wind."Truly appreciate you rapid fire knowledge...Dale
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TramwayGuy
Orange Level Access Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11442 |
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I'm curious whether anyone has ever tried to put a CA transmission in a 'G' and ended up with a 5-speed 'G'.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80225 |
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The G and B used basically the same transmission. The B does have the final drive gear reduction... You can flip the bevel gear in the differential to the other side to make the output run backward... for a fork truck, or 3 Rev 1Fwd speed...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jonny B 1938
Silver Level Joined: 21 Jul 2016 Location: Peotone IL. Points: 152 |
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I think I'll go with increased engine RPM, the cost of custom cut and hardened gears would be about the same money or more.
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22818 |
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So, if you can get 1800 rpm out of it, you should be able to run close to 10mph.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4670 |
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The way that the G travelled forward with the same transmission as a B without a reverse direction from the final drives is that the engine drove into the rear of the transmission on what would be the PTO drive of a B. The ring gear CAN NOT be reversed in a B the way it can in a WD because of the cut in the ring gear teeth. The pinion drives the ring gear below the centerline. If someone wanted to put a CA transmission into a G tractor, they'd still only have a 4 speed. The LOW Creeper was outside of the transmission case in the frame. It just might be possible if someone wanted to do some remachining, but not a bolt in swap as with a CA into a B or C.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Jonny B 1938
Silver Level Joined: 21 Jul 2016 Location: Peotone IL. Points: 152 |
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Yup keep it simple and not noticeable, increase the RPM and tire diameter. I am thinking 2500 RPM ceiling with a 11/24 tire which gives me a couple inches over the ( stock) tire on there now.
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Allis dave
Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2900 |
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You'll wear the engine out a lot faster at those higher Rpms.
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Jonny B 1938
Silver Level Joined: 21 Jul 2016 Location: Peotone IL. Points: 152 |
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Well I am doing internal modifications to compensate such as a roller Torrington cam bumper, balanced rotating assembly, stiffer oil pressure spring with a blueprinted oil pump and hardened valve seats. Also looking into a counter weighted crank. I have done other engines such as early Ford this way but off the shelf parts are unavailable for an Allis so some custom parts will need to be made. I did a Ford 8N engine using the same methods and it regularly gets used for mowing over 5 acres twice a week for the last 7 years, no issues yet running at 2500 RPM all day.
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HoughMade
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2017 Location: Valparaiso, IN Points: 691 |
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I hate to revive a post from the dead, but I hate to make a new thread for the same topic more.
Background, I would really like to take my Dad's A-C B on the Mackinac Bridge Tractor Crossing at some point. Sure, I could use a different tractor, but frankly, I don't want to. This was my Dad's tractor, he grew up on a farm in Michigan and my Grandpa (his dad) started off farming with an A-C- B (though not this one). If i do the bridge crossing, I want it to be with this tractor....so any efforts to try to talk me into another will be in vain. Anyhoo, they test the tractors and they have to be able to do 10 mph, as pointed out above, a B will not do 10 mph stock. There has been some talk about using a CA transmission. I looked into this a bit. With the help of the ratios and method found here: I worked out the speed for a B in 3rd gear at 1400 rpm- which is actually 8.28 mph using this method. The oft-cited Nebraska test number of 7 3/4 mph was an advertised speed on the BE engine at, we would guess because it does not say, 1400 rpm. When tested in 1950 with the CE engine, a closer analog to my '51 with the CE, it lists an advertised speed of 7 1/2 mph, but that does not make sense given at the very least you get 100 extra rpm because the CE is rated at 1500 rpm. It is likely that the advertised speed is not the actual top speed at the highest rpm, but again, the Nebraska tractor test did not actually test that. So, I am going to assume that the B differential ratio and final drive ratios were the same in 1951 as they were in the 1942 tractor noted in the link above. Please correct me is I am wrong about that. Using the ratios in the 1st link, we get an actual theoretical top speed of 8.28 mph at 1,400 rpm for a B and 8.875 at 1,500 rpm (assuming 11.2x24 tires). Now, if I substitute the CA 4th gear for the B 3rd gear (I know the whole transmission needs to be changed, but I don't care about anything other than the top gear), assuming it is 49/24, 2.23, as stated in a post above....and leave the differential and finals at B ratios....it appears that 10 mph will be no problem whatsoever. In fact, it would appear that at 1400 rpm, there is a theoretical 15 mph....assuming the torque. I think the CA has lower differential or final ratios or both than the B that accounts for the lower top speed, but I'm sure someone here knows for sure. I will check these numbers again, but it would appear I am looking for a CA transmission or an overdrive for a B. Not inexpensive, but I would love the opportunity to make this work.
Edited by HoughMade - 27 Sep 2022 at 6:07pm |
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1951 B
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20191 |
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If the speed is 8.3 MPH @ 1400 RPM's it would be 11.8 MPH @ 2,000 RPM. A simple D-15 governor spring fix. Nebraska Test only gives rated RPM speeds, not full throttle.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80225 |
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--"RATED" speed of 1400 is where you get max HP.... that MAY be the fastest the motor runs, or may not (I dont know about the B-C) ... but on NEWER engines, you might have a MAX RPM of 2000 and a RATED RPM of 1700.... so the GROUND SPEED may not be at RATED RPM.
--I have read that gear ratios in the B and C final drives were not the same tooth number... i can not comfirm that, but it would explain the difference in MPH figures. --I agree with DOC... simple way to get more MPH is to put BIG TIRES, and UP the RPM by modify the GOV.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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KMAG
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 May 2020 Location: Elizabethtown, Points: 669 |
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Good reading on topic:
https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/4-speed-transmission-for-b_topic44886.html https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/ca-transmission-in-a-b_topic27282.html https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/ca-trans-swap-into-a-model-b-c_topic181685.html?SID=9210-13626e9e49z11za11z3e6148726852#1542850 https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/opinion-on-ca-b-hybrid-tractors_topic178383.html |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22818 |
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You will find it VERY difficult, more likely impossible, to substitute a CA 4th gear, for the B 3rd gear. CA transmissions were constant mesh helical gears. The B is a spur gear, where the gear actually slides in and out of contact. You CAN remove the B transmission, and bolt in a CA transmission.
Like said above, rated RPM is NOT the maximum. If it won't go 10 MPH the way it sits, put bigger back tires on it for the ride. Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 29 Sep 2022 at 5:59pm |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3489 |
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12.4 x 24 firestone sat II with new 10" wheels , sure sped up my c and they look good on it now i need more power
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