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Wiring a GM alternator |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2022 |
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Very good.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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One final question.
Will this always show to be charging 14 plus volts on the volt meter or will it kick off when at full charge? I haven’t seen it change yet. The battery is old and not super strong. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22270 |
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charge 'rate' depends on battery 'condition' Normally just after starting ammeter will swing up to say 30 amps, then slowly move down to just above zero over a few minutes. It all depends on several factors but that's the gist of it. IE: '30' isn't a hard and fast number. A more powerful alternator can supply more amps, a good battery doesn't need many to 'top up', RPM is a factor, slow=less amps, fast =more(but limited),air temp, cold is bad for batteries,warm is nice,wiring is a BIG factor,clean new cables are BEST,old,corroded bodged are bad. You should run the tractor, 'high idle' for at least 10-15 minutes to get a good recharge of the battery,especially in winter.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11544 |
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Yeah, but Thad is asking about a volt meter, not an ammeter. (why don't they call it an ampmeter??)
A volt meter should be reading after the regulator, so yes, it will show your 14+ volts when everything is working correctly.
Edited by Tbone95 - 21 Feb 2022 at 6:49am |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22270 |
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hmm, somehow I thought it was all back to 'original'.... ok, voltmeter... will read '12" with key on, engine off... '14' while charging',,lil less when done for the day... maybe '10' while starting why the spelling ??? cause he guy who created the name, had just drunk 5 beers and had to go take a 'p'........
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11544 |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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Here we go again.
The old alternator quit. I took the other to Napa. He says it’s a one wire. Looks same as others and has the two flat terminals. He says don’t use the light or exciter wire. I hooked it up and it seems to be charging. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22270 |
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interesting.. I wonder if all 'one wire' alternators have the 2 lat terminals or do 'they' put a 'blank plate' in that spot ??
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2022 |
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Most I've seen have a black plastic "blanking plate" as you mention. It easily removes however.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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Now I really feel stupid. This had a little black plug. I just thought it was for packing/ shipping. They put my old one in the box and kept paperwork. I had no idea it was a one wire. Old one was not. |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2022 |
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No need. We learn and that's the important part.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22270 |
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so.... a 1 wire unit HAS those 2 tabs ?? That's crazy,hopefully '1' and '2' are NOT connected inside somewhere....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80231 |
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Well, they screwed up if you NEEDED a 3 wire and they sold you a 1 wire without telling you... Worked out for you.... but how about the guy with the old car that needed ORIGINAL ?
YEA... i have seen the "PLUG" on the 1 wire alternators.. BUTT... should be marked on the alter or the BOX !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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Steve I’m sure it was marked on the box. But we just dropped my core in it and I took just the new alternator. So I don’t know if it’s screwed up or not. It’s charging like it’s supposed to but it has the jumper from 2 to the big battery lug.? I have no idea how the regulator senses voltage to shut it off? This isn’t what I asked for. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22270 |
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re: This isn’t what I asked for. Perfect reason to take it back and get what YOU wanted. It , THEY sold you the wrong alternator doesn't matter that is 'works', They're fault, THEY should exchange for the CORRECT one. I know they'll say 'sorry, it's electrical..no refunds/exchanges'......BS.... If they pull that say .. well.. if you'd gone to a Chevy dealer said you wanted a 'vette, paid ,then it was delivered to your place, you'ld be happy that it's a CHEvette and not the CORvette you 'expected' and needed and wanted ??? bottom line ...1 wire alternator is NOT the 'SAME' as a 3 wire, not what you want,need or ordered..... BTW, it senses internally which isn't perfect as it can't compensate for battery lead losses. |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80231 |
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Thad.. instead of taking it back, i would at least stop by the store and describe the situation and see if they sell BOTH, or what they expect people to do ? They might suggest you bring it back... they might also just stare at you with a blank look on their face ? I would at least bring it to their attention.
It appears what you have now is what Codger has been saying... The #2 wire is HOT as jumpered to the BAT lug on the back.. I still dont understand how it does that without the "signal" #1 wire, but apparently it does... Wiring on these must be slightly different INTERNAL than the originals in 1970.
Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Feb 2022 at 8:52am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5735 |
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The 10SI with it's internal regulator was quite a cool 'gadget' when it came out. The engineers who did the regulator's solid-state design started with a very blank slate. They had a rotating armature with slip rings, and a field, just like any other alternator. They knew that they could regulate current through the field to control output voltage on the surrounding windings. They knew that the surrounding windings' voltage presented a perfect signal to use as feedback to control the field. They knew that the case would be aluminum, and there'd be a fan to force airflow, so they could mount a solid-state regulator directly TO the frame, integrated in, it would perform as an excellent heat-sink. They made the regulator to read internally, and sink heat through that frame. They also knew that, since the armature would be ferrous, it would develop a little bit of magnetic 'memory'... as generator guys say "Residual Magnetism". When you spin a coil within a magnetic field, or you spin a magnetic field within reach of a coil, The coil presents voltage, and if there's a place for that voltage to flow, it develops current. They knew that, as long as the armature had residual voltage, it would develop enough voltage to flow current, which the regulator could divert into the field, to develop a stronger current, which would create a stronger field, thus yielding a 'self-exciting' alternator. The only circumstance they could NOT accomplish, is developing residual magnetism in that armature, if there was none to begin with... and since some machines and vehicles sit for long periods of time, an external source for a little 'seed' current to wake it up is necessary. Remember how we gotta 'flash' the field on our generators? Same deal, different meal. This is no different from externally-regulated alternators and generators, and in those earlier systems, engineers decided that using a small light bulb between the field and battery would 'force' the field into action when starting the engine. Once spun up and generating, the regulator would be pushing current directly into the windings, and in doing so, the lamp would not illuminate (because voltage on the field is now equal to, or higher than the battery's voltage, right?) The cool side-effect, is that if the alternator stopped alternating (a broken belt, for instance) that light would illuminate, because the field current would no longer be internally-generated. When the Delco guys developed the 10SI, they wanted to make it absolutely foolproof (which isn't possible, because the only thing that develops faster than technology, is foolishness), so they settled for ALMOST foolproof. They added that lamp 1) so that people now accomplished into expecting idiot lights would be satisfied and 2) in the event that someone doesn't drive their car for a week or so, it'd still wake up and operate. As a result of the 'always had a BATT Light', Delco's engineers made the SI's regulator WITHOUT the internal connection for self-excitation. The alternator would do it ANYWAY, if spun up fast enough... and nobody knew the difference. SO, you can put a one-wire alternator on just about anything... as long as you spin one FAST ENOUGH, they'll self-excite without that lamp. IF you have a low-output version, they'll self excite without any fuss. My D17's 10SI is wound in series, with extra turns on both field and armature, and it wakes right up on every start, even if the throttle is at dead-idle... but due to the windings' added turns and smaller wire, it doesn't knock out much more than about 27A. Since I use the tractor for a few hours every week, and I'm not running a thump-beat stereo (there's 2 medium floodlamps and 2 small LED taillamps, and an ignition coil), that battery is ALWAYS good, even if it's at dead-idle speed. If I were to put a 55A unit on it, I'd start having problems... because 1) it wouldn't self excite until throttling it up a bit and 2) I'd be running it too slow to really do well. IF I put the high-snot 100A on it, it simply wouldn't do the job... it might self-excite, but to get that kind of output, they have to wire the stator up for parallel (delta) rather than series (wye), so it takes even MORE spin to get above 14v on the output. Since I use this tractor for creeping trailers around, toting pallets on forks, I rarely run it up past 2/3rds governed limit, when I do, it's because I'm running 4 miles down the hill to help my Dad, mebbie I make that run twice a year... it would simply NEVER charge it's battery. You COULD run that alternator in one-wire. On the original 10SI, there were SOME regulators that didn't have the internal connection to self-excite... but it didn't take long for the aftermarket to integrate the internal connection ANYWAY, because a failed BATT lamp would cause the alternator to not operate, thus, drain a battery. <and the reason for this revelation> who would'a thought you'd be stranded in the middle of nowhere, with a totally dead battery, because the BATT warning light was burnt out? <this is why REAL companies pay REAL engineers perform what's called Failure Mode Analysis> |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4474 |
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I have forgotten more than I remember. But I know in the 90's I put one wire alternators on 3 tractors. All where very bare bones electric system, all diesels, so no draw but starter or lights. No switches or other devices where needed.
I am remembering buying a 2 wire plug with pig tail and putting both to one wire going to the battery. I know I was amazed at how simple it was. But who knows what I am forgetting. The one that I know still works does have switch. The crawlers did not but are parked as I do less and less farming. So give it a little time. Keep a eye on battery condition to see if it is drawing juice when just sitting. You said it was charging when you first put this last alternator on.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9422 |
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Yes Ray it instantly starts charging. I was just afraid I may have ruined it. I wired it up like a standard alternator and it sounded terrible. Hooked up one wire it sounds fine. The guy at Napa said it’s all they had and getting another is hard. I’m gonna try it for a while and see how it goes. On the flip side the guys at Napa don’t ask questions on returns. |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2022 |
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See if a wrench is attracted to the rear of the alternator case when the engine is not running. If it isn't, there is no battery drain through the alternator. If the wrench is attracted, you need to address this as it will deplete the battery.
Another quick test is to use a non contact thermometer, (or your hands) and look at the alternator temperature when the engine is cold such as sitting overnight. If the alternator is very warm, it is drawing current and that current is from your battery.
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