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WF owner 
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Location: Bombay NY
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 Topic: GEM Car
Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 6:48am |
I just bought a (very) used 1986 GEM Car e4. It is basically a four-seater golf cart, that is street legal (it can and will be licensed). I will use it for running around home (I have a storage building that is down the road) and for our shows at the St. Lawrence Power and Equipment Museum (where the NY 2023 GOTO was held).
It needs new batteries, which is not an inexpensive deal. It uses 6 Group 31 deep cycle 12-volt batteries, hooked in series, for a 72 volt system.
It currently has Interstate AGM batteries. When I priced the same Interstate AGM batteries, they are $463 each (total $2778). That is not going to happen! Regular (flooded cell) batteries are $156 each (total $936).
The batteries are mounted under the seat (4) and in the "trunk" (2). They all sit upright, so spillage is a non-factor.
Are AGM batteries that much better, to justify almost 3 times the cost?
I was looking at lithium batteries. Some of them are warrantied for 10 years! The two drawbacks I found with lithium is that every manufacturer says you can only connect four batteries in series (one says five), so that is a deal breaker. I also read that the lithium batteries don't work well running motors. Apparently, they work better for storage for homes from solar and other generating systems.
Any input?
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Gary
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 7:34am |
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Hi Curt
Are you getting the jump on owning an Electric Vehicle?
Gary
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 8:20am |
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We put dura start cheep walmart batteries in the gof cart at the farm. Haven't noticed any differance. I do know the dura starts won't last like the originals did but their 1/4 the price. The originals lasted 8 years. Cheepies been in the cart for 2 years now so we've broke even. The batteries get removed and stored in the heated shop along with combine batteries and articulating tractor batteries.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 26 Jul 2024 at 8:24am
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 8:28am |
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Never run your lead acid batteries flat. We charge the golf cart tue and fri nights when it still has plenty of power just plug in and flip the maintained switch and the next morning it'll be full.
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Walker
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 10:51am |
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I'd hide a Harbor freight gas engine in there somewhere.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 11:59am |
re: The two drawbacks I found with lithium is that every manufacturer says
you can only connect four batteries in series (one says five), so that
is a deal breaker. I also read that the lithium batteries don't work
well running motors.
gee don't tell that to Tesla or Ryobi !!! My 18V Ryobi battery is 5 in series and Tesla( all EVs) run dozens in series to get 400-700 Volts...
..oh yeah.... both use batteries to power MOTORS.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 3:03pm |
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Watch Lithium batteries, have a friend that used them for his internet and they went boom and burnt the house down.
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WF owner
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Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 8:47pm |
I ran it around the museum on and off most of the day today. The 2017 (installed) batteries that came with it seemed to work fine. The guy that I bought it from installed an aftermarket battery Quick Charge 6 Bank Charger ( Quick Charge 6 Bank EV Charger | ChargingChargers.com), which replaced the defective built-in charger. When the charger was replaced, the battery monitoring went with it. I am going to look for a volt meter that will monitor up to 85 volts (14 volts x 6 batteries). Now I'm hoping to get through (at least) this year with these batteries.
Gary, I'm more hoping to cut down on the walking, than I am anything else!
Dakota Dave, I had already looked into the Walmart batteries. I have used them in campers and always had pretty good luck with them. They don't make a Group 31 (at least that's what the local Walmart Automotive guy told me), but they do make Group 27's at about the same price for AGM as the Interstate lead-acid). That is a very viable option. As for right now, it will be charged daily when it has been used!
Jay, I am talking exclusively about 12 volt lithium deep cycle batteries. Every site I have been in says that up to 4 batteries can be hooked in series, except one that says 5.
Thanks everyone for the replies!!!
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 2:05pm |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 7:30pm |
re: Every site I have been in says that up to 4 batteries can be hooked in series, except one that says 5.
that's because 'they' only SELL 'up to 4, maybe 5' ,12 volt batteries in series. It only takes some KNOWLEDGE to 'string' any number of '12 volt' batteries in series to get what you want. OK not 'common' BUT it CAN be done.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Posted: 28 Jul 2024 at 5:30pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
re: Every site I have been in says that up to 4 batteries can be hooked in series, except one that says 5.
that's because 'they' only SELL 'up to 4, maybe 5' ,12 volt batteries in series. It only takes some KNOWLEDGE to 'string' any number of '12 volt' batteries in series to get what you want. OK not 'common' BUT it CAN be done.
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I know it can physically be done (I am now connecting six 12-volt deep cycle AGM batteries in parallel for the 72-volt system), but I am wondering if there is a reason they don't want someone hooking more than four in series. Maybe the internals are not capable of standing up to the increased voltage when more than four are connected in series?
I am thinking there is some reason every company that sells 12-volt lithium batteries have a warning that says, "Expandable up to four batteries in series or parallel". None of the manufacturers of AGM or lead-acid batteries have a similar warning.
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WF owner
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Posted: 28 Jul 2024 at 5:36pm |
This is the disclaimer on one of the lithium batteries. Every 12-volt lithium battery I have found has a similar warning.
" - 【Expandable for Wide Applications】Expandable up to 4 in series and 4 in parallel (Max 4S4P), the 12V 100Ah TM LiFePO4 battery can build a 48V 400Ah system for max. 20.48kWh energy and 20.48kW load power. Perfect for RV, solar, home energy storage, and especially ideal for 30-70 lb thrust trolling motors. "
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 28 Jul 2024 at 5:44pm |
It goes back to the SELLERS aren't the MANUFACTURERS of the batteries. There's a huge market for 12,24, 36 and 48 volt battery packs,so they buy and resell those to make a profit. Easy as 'shooting fish in a barrel'. very limited market potential for 60,72, 84 volts packs.
My remote energy control systems ran 7.2 VDC SLA, an oddity 3 decades ago but served me very,very well. Yes, I had to design the charging system and load testing functions but batteries lasted 8-10 years. Also kept competition in the dark.
Might want to check what voltages pure electric buses run on as I've seen some use LiFePO4 packs in them.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Posted: 29 Jul 2024 at 5:23am |
Thanks for your opinion, Jay, but all you have given me is your opinion, without any facts.
I am not going to risk spending ~$1500 on an experiment that could end up not working, or worse yet, cause a fire or unsafe situation without some (scientific) facts or someone's experience that they have with installing six lithium batteries in series, against virtually every vendor's warning to install a maximum of four in series.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 29 Jul 2024 at 5:38am |
Well you can install 2 'packs' of 3 batteries(36V) in series to get 6 in series(72 v), having one charger wired for the lower pack, another for the upper pack. Each charger takes care of one 36 volt 'battery'. As long as the charger is matched to the battery, this will work. Mind you the vendors probably don't understand how or why this can work, as they didn't design the product. They just sell . Sadly very few today understand what's 'inside the box'.
curious was I ...
here's just one a quik google found......
so there ARE vendors selling higher voltage packs.
Edited by jaybmiller - 29 Jul 2024 at 5:42am
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Walker
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Posted: 01 Aug 2024 at 11:06pm |
Why not about a 12 foot diameter windmill bolted to the roof and a generator? Think of it as sort of a charge as you go motif and apply for a Lightening Boy license plate.
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