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Possible broken drive axle D grader |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 1820 |
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Seen a lot of axles twisted and sheared much as you have experienced in heavy trucks. Mostly from harsh clutch engagement or sudden traction to a slipping wheel such as a hard surface while spinning in gravel. Bouncing is very hard on these things while power is applied also. Does that roller bearing abut against a shoulder on the shaft opposite the break? I too am trying to reason why the bevel on the shaft where it failed unless a circlip of some fashion was to go into a machined groove to retain the bearing? Definitely a stress riser and weak point. From your photo I cannot tell if the shaft in your hand is the long part with the splines, or the shorter broken part outboard?
Edited by Codger - 05 Jan 2024 at 6:19am |
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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So when I pulled the drive shaft out, this is what I found! On the left of the image is the outboard end of the shaft with the bearing still in position. You can see that it’s a very clean break thankfully. On the right in my hand is the inboard end of the shaft that fits into the gear box bevel gear. The break occurred right on the shoulder that locates the bearing. I’m supposing that the very sharp corner created a stress concentrator that lead to a little crack forming. The last time I ran the machine I was improving an old V ditch and I got the left side chain box hung up the berm of the ditch and the wheels lost contact with the ground, so the all torque of the motor was going through just one shaft - which had this fatal flaw. And then it broke. Anyway, I should have the new shaft next week and assuming the inner bearing is ok I can put it back together. Frankly, cleaning out the years of gunge in the chain boxes is going to be a bigger, nastier job than replacing the drive shaft. I’m seriously considering drilling and tapping a new drain hole in the chain boxes as the one that is in it is about 10mm above the bottom of the box, which isn’t very helpful. |
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Coke. That would have been disappointing for you. Yes you really need to understand your metallurgy if you are going to do those sorts of repairs, otherwise you just create a new problem down the track.
My driveshaft doesn’t look like it was repaired though, as I mentioned above I think it’s just a design flaw. The shoulder for locating the bearing creates a stress concentrator and it just snapped clean as at that point. I’ll post some photos.
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41226 |
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I had bought a couple used axles for my HD4 from small repair shop - had 2 failures on those axles - then when I asked the guy about them , he said he had a guy repair them , weld up worn area and turn down to size to fit old seal and bearing .
Seems he fixed them to the point that they became brittle at the end next to mounting flange for sprocket , where they ended up breaking each time . Found a axle with just worn seal area , bought a speedy sleeve and proper seal to run with it and no more problems . Sometimes one persons idea of a fix - creates another problem if not done right . Could be reason yours broke , a bad repair the last time with buildup to fix a problem ! |
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"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Steve. Yes I got *very* lucky with this failure. It could have been far worse. If it was the shaft spline then I’d have had a lot more work pulling off the tandem cases, and axle housing. As it is, it should just be a case of sliding in the new shaft. Frankly, cleaning up the tandem cases and getting the chains back on is probably going to be more work!
I will say though that I’m disappointed with the shaft design. Not machining in stress concentrators was pretty much “design 101” when I was studying these things. Oh, something else I noticed with I pulled the broken shaft: the castle nut that holds the double sprocket onto the end of the drive shaft was missing its locking wire! Seems the last person to work on this machine just didn’t give a toss. I’m going to have to give it all a good look over at some stage and find what else has been ignored.
Edited by LangdonStevenson - 03 Jan 2024 at 1:31pm |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78088 |
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Thanks for the update Langdon... that makes a lot of sense.. and not as bad to repair as it could have been !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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I finally got a chance to block the grader up today and investigate the right hand drive shaft. Had to pull the two right hand wheels off, drain the chain box oil, and pull off the side hatch, split the drive chains, then take the drive gears off. All of that went pretty easily thankfully. Even getting the spring clip that retains the outboard bearing out was easy enough.
As soon as the chains were off it was clear that the shaft was broken near the chain box end. When it came out (with a little help from a slide hammer) you could see that it had sheared off very cleanly right at the point where the drive shaft had been machined to create a shoulder for the outboard bearing to sit against. The shoulder had created a stress concentrator and it broke from a crack that had started working its way into the shaft from the shoulder. I don’t have any photos currently (as it started pouring rain just as I got the shaft out). I’ll take some tomorrow and post them here. New drive shaft is ordered along with a new outboard bearing and seal. I should have them by next week and hopefully will have the grader running again the following week!
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Ian, thanks for sharing that. I don't believe that's the problem in my case, but I'll be sure when I start to disassemble.
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41226 |
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Bought my Adams 411 grader cheap as they said clutch was out . When working on it I found one spring was broken but noticed the nut holding the clutch housing hub had play in washer behind nut .
Found the splines to drive that clutch housing were worn and housing moved and when it did it released the clutch disc .. Weird setup as engine flywheel drove a shaft that went to clutch housing that acted like a flywheel / clutch unit but a separate unit mounted under cab area . So checked splines and did some welding and grinding to restore worn splines somewhat . Original nut on that shaft replaced with a self locking nut , and no problems since . I did have to go to a spring place and have the spring made as was a different geometry than even they had ever seen (coil spring with tabs like what might be on a door hinge) |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Ian Beale
Orange Level Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Location: New South Wales Points: 934 |
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Just a thought
We've found that AC 45 graders have a habit of breaking the welds that attach the chain sprockets to the axles of the wheels. Any chance that could have happened to the sprocket that drives your chain?
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Thank you Steve and Dave, that's good to know. When I pull the shaft I'll know. I'll be very disappointed if the splines on the hub are torn out. That will be a significantly bigger job to fix - if I can get the part.
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50660 |
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As Steve said, check the splines, these graders have a bit of a history of spline stripping, on the output end of the transmission...
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78088 |
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I think your on the right track Landon... Axle shaft is a good possibility.. ALso could have broke the hub or torn splines out of the hub... Good idea to look further at this time.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Coke, Yes I plan on pulling the right hand axle to confirm that it is in fact broken, but I didn't want to go ahead and do that until I knew that the probable part was available and affordable. Since it is, the next step is to do that investigation and confirm the failure. If I'm right, then I'll take the plunge and order the parts.
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Mike, No I don't have a part number sorry. I bought the service manual, but not the parts manual. It would be easy enough to get though. Do you have a line on a driveshaft?
Edited by LangdonStevenson - 05 Dec 2023 at 4:06pm |
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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Hi Paul and Steve, I should have mentioned in my original post that I checked the chains and they are both fine, so the problem has to be (as far as I can see) between the drive sprocket in the right hand tandem/chain box and the bevel gear in the axle housing, which also drives the left side which still has power.
Edited by LangdonStevenson - 05 Dec 2023 at 4:07pm |
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41226 |
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The guess of what might be wrong can be costly ,
The exploration to find the problem is well worth the time to find the actual problem . |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78088 |
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chain ties the two wheels together.... If it broke, the DRIVE wheel would still be turning ??
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4435 |
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Before you sink a bunch into an expensive part you may not need, have you checked to see if a chain broke in the lower case?
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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Mikez
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8156 |
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I’m curious Do you have part number
Edited by Mikez - 05 Dec 2023 at 9:12am |
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LangdonStevenson
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jun 2023 Location: Australia Points: 73 |
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While running my D model grader last week cutting in a drainage ditch beside a private road I bogged it down with too deep a cut. Before I dropped the clutch though there was a dull thump from down low in the machine. I also stalled it at that moment and was subsequently distracted by a coincidentally broken starter cable. When I got it running again I discovered that the right hand tandems were not driving - but the left side still is. [Edit] I checked the right hand chain box and both chains are intact, so the problem is definitely not chains. Having had a look at the diagram for the rear axle assemblymy conclusion is that the right hand drive shaft must have broken. I have found a replacement (new apparently) driveshaft with seals and bearings for $2,000 delivered. I think that is a reasonable investment to keep the machine operational as I have a lot of work to do with it and it's working well since the hydraulic rams were rebuilt. Has anyone ever replaced a drive shaft in a D/DD grader? From the service manual it doesn't look like a difficult task and I can probably do it without even removing the rear axle assembly. Any thoughts and experience welcomed. Langdon
Edited by LangdonStevenson - 05 Dec 2023 at 4:00pm |
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