This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | ||||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Engine rebuild |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:17am |
I have a do you 17 going to end up rebuilding motor wondering how I could get to maybe 70 hp is that something that is capable of being done on pump gas? Feel free to give me any tips anyone might have
|
|
Sponsored Links | |
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
70 PTO HP ?? 4 1/8" overbore sleeves and pistons with 8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression (that's the secret) with your camshaft reground to a "175" tractor grind and a D-19 carb made to fit the engine will get you right there at 1800 RPM rated load on 87 octane gas. My reasoning?? A stock A-C 175 gas tractor made 61 HP at the PTO with 4 inch bore, 8.25 to 1 compression, better camshaft grind and a smaller carburetor, while having a 12 GPM hydraulic pump loading the engine. 1/8" extra bore +4 HP. No 12 GPM hyd pump +3 or 4 HP. Larger D-19 carb another +3 or maybe 4 HP. Good luck !!!
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks be reading on stuff here that goes back 20 years just signed up day ago. I thought going with the 4 1/8 would actually drop compression figured that would be the compression ratio I would be looking for I see they make an LP kit or high octane kit with those parameters I think forgot to say it was a series 3. S# 701 12
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
And yes, 70 at the PTO would be nice. Forgot to say that.
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Forgot to say, is it worth porting and polishing head
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
GOING TO THE TYPICAL 4 1/8" DOES INDEED DROP COMPRESSION AS A RULE !!! Because these aftermarket venders don't understand. So, it's up to you to KNOW what you are getting !! I think there are 4 1/8" flat tops that may meet this compression number. Porting ?? I don't do that on a farm tractor. You can shorten the intake guides on the bottom 1/2" to easily open things up.
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for your input in time
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
And time
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Any place that you recommend dealing with wind buying rebuild kits
|
|
560Dennis
Bronze Level Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Location: NE OHIO Points: 116 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
nos , least expensive
|
|
IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3725 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Dennis, I think that would be hard to harness in a tractor pull! If you 'hit the button' early it would probably blow up before the end. If you waited until close to the end, probably just spin-out in spectacular fashion.
|
|
Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Arias Custom Pistons in CA will make you a set of pistons and work with you to ensure you get what you want. Not cost prohibitive in my opinion. They have many blanks to machine to your specifications and if you send them a good usable piston to start from, give them correct information of your desires, you will get what you need.
I had them make a set of pistons for one of my V8 Mack engines and they look almost duplicates of the originals. Only second machining operations I needed was to open up the pin bores as they could only do 2.00" where I needed 2.250" if memory serves. My uncle did that operation and fitted the new pins.
|
|
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've used Ross Pistons over the years. Will make me whatever I want, and I always design the Power Crater piston bowl in the top. So, money not being a problem, source yourself four new 4 1/8" sleeves by themselves and have custom pistons made to your desired compression ratio to fit those new sleeves.
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Is that Ross racing pistons you’re talking then ? I see alot of people taking cam to berry cam in Minnesota for cam grinding.
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Putting D 19 carb on that involve some new connecting rods to be completed or not seeing that you’re talking about twisting it up to 1800 versus 1650 do I need different governor weights to accomplish that? And what is the difference between G block and W block I got a WD 45, which is supposedly the same block but does not look the same. 45 has a big plate on the casting behind distributor or a magneto or whatever you wanna call it.
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So I guess I got a couple other questions rear rims need to replace one center Rusted as well filled with fluid rusted out. I was considering putting Twheels on waiting for Michelin to get back to me seems to be hard to get any answers out of them I know they made them because when I went to go pick up this D 17 seen a couple tractors running around with them in Wisconsin. I know it won’t look proper. What other tractors have the same bolt pattern I don’t mind if they’re not adjustable. Thought I got a pretty good price though 400 bucks for this D 17 motor stuck guy down the road had a couple one diesel think the other one was a series 4 he was asking 3000 bucks for tractors, not running needing a bunch of parts so I think I did all right
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I thought this started out as a thread about a D-17 tractor/D-17 engine ?? Now, you're describing a WC/WD block with a plate on the right side??? Are we talking tractor pulling here??? or do you want to use this engine to farm with ??? Your BEST engine build begins with a G-226/D-17 engine that has 3 inch diameter main bearings in it. The WC/WD/WD45 engine family has 2 1/2" diameter mains. D-17 conn rods are fine, but the newer the engine is the better, as the forgings improved in the later engines. There are different governor weights and things to do to the governor without going over 2100 RPM high idle/no load. D-19 carb requires mods to make it fit, YES. Why don't you get the engine built and running with a D-17 carb and go from there. I loaned Berry Cams a brand new AC 175 camshaft to make a "pattern" from 30+ years ago. They should know how to do it, but I understand the people I dealt with aren't there any more. EDIT: If this engine is to be used as a"farming" engine, and used at the highest HP it can develop a good deal of the time, let it be known to you, it will not run as many hours of service life as a bone stock engine. It can't. You will be increasing the speed of wear on crankshaft main and rod bearings from the extra pressure from making HP. The more hours it spends making 70 HP the less hours it will run before needing bearings. Horsepower ain't for free!!! If it is used far more hrs at a lesser HP output and occasionally high HP output, that is a good thing for longer life.
Edited by DrAllis - 26 Nov 2023 at 10:46am |
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yeah I know I need to stay on topic newbie no pulling tractor just gonna use it to bail hay mostly just for fun. Got a little obsessed with tractors the last couple months. poler would be fun maybe sometime
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So I’m basically looking for the horsepower to run a baler, hoping I would needn’t to run it wide open no I don’t know what Baler I will be using yet was hoping to run some small round baler like 30 bales.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Balers are ran at 540 PTO speed/1650 RPM on the D-17 engine. Find yourself some 4 1/8" flat top piston/sleeve kit as I think someone has an 8.0 to 1 compression ratio offered. Do the camshaft grind if you want. Stick with stock carb for 1650 RPM so your governor action is acceptable. The 70 HP number was based upon 1800 loaded RPM. Can't do that with a baler at 1650 RPM. You don't need 70 HP for a baler size the weight of a D-17 can handle anyway.
Edited by DrAllis - 26 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm |
|
AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A stock D17 gas or diesel will handle a square baler with ease. My WD has no issue so expecting my D17D to handle it with ease next year. I can’t wait until hay season next year…I hope we have one after this years disaster year.
|
|
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4664 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A D-17 will handle an average small baler, but I know a guy who has one of the newer Hesston inline small square balers and he pulls a 15 bale Kuhn accumulator. He says he needs at least 100 hp. on the baler.
They make big windrows and run the baler near it's capacity. He says they can easily bale 2500 bales per day.
|
|
Charlie175
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have High Compression Flattops in my D17 that I searched for a long time to find. They are in the 8 or higher compression range. Look for SK156 pistons, They will give you a few more HP.
I assume you are talking about a Round baler?
|
|
Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4664 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Are you able to run regular gas with the flat top pistons?
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks sk# number yes round bales
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression ratio will run on 87 octane gas, YES. Ignition timing should be retarded from 25 degrees BTDC down to 22 or 23 degrees BTDC as per an A-C bulletin 45 yrs ago.
|
|
HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3536 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
is that a wd 4 inch stroke piston
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The one I found was 4 1/8 with that SKU
|
|
cwsac.1
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Nov 2023 Location: 45750 Points: 35 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Good to know timing thanks knowI just need to get out it. Dang cold out though. let you know how it goes after I get all my measurements.
|
|
HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3536 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
what is the pin hight
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |