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Jacob (WI,ND) 
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 Topic: Fixing Mag impulse's, help please
Posted: 03 May 2010 at 8:48pm |
Hi all, This post: http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11850&PID=89770&title=model-b-mag-question#89770
got me to wondering about the mag that Dad picked up at the junkyard last weekend, and I figured this would be a good segway into asking some more questions.
First, it is a FMJ mag off a WD or WC (not sure which at the moment)
But Dad says that the impulse might have either been monkeyed with, or is broken, because it don't "snap" like it should, and I think he said the nut on the end looked like it had been monkeyed with.
So questions: How does one go about checking to see if things are as they should be? I understand the "dogs" and what they do now, I think, from reading the above post. So we can check to make sure they are operating correctly.
But assuming the "clock spring" is not broken, how does one rewind it if someone had taken it apart, etc...? Are special tools needed for this, or is it just a matter of winding up a spring? Maybe it's all self evident once a guy takes it apart?
What else should be checked/ looked at while in the impulse area?
I realize I could send it to someone to have it fixed, but we want to learn how it's done, so we can fix these things ourselves, ya know?
Thanks for any help!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 8:56pm |
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Please dont take this the wrong way but the best thing I beleive that can be done to a mag. Is for it to be sold to someone at a swap meet. Then go purchase the distributor and adapter you can pick both up for 100 usually if you look hard enough.jmho
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morton(pa)
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:02pm |
And my opinion is to keep the mag, fiddle with it till it works, and be able to say YOU CAN DO WHAT OTHERS CANT! Thats what I did! Plus, should you ever decide to run your tractor without a battery, it will still start with a mag. If you have a distributor, you must have a good battery. You would not believe how handy that is...
But I will also say, don't take it apart until you know what you need to do clearly. Mag's are very finniki, and you can easily screw things up that you don't need to. Be cautious when taking it apart, and find out what needs to be done first. Get it done and don't fool with anything else, and don't be frustrated if you find out something is broke that you can't fix.
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:03pm |
 mlpankey wrote:
Please dont take this the wrong way but the best thing I beleive that can be done to a mag. Is for it to be sold to someone at a swap meet. Then go purchase the distributor and adapter you can pick both up for 100 usually if you look hard enough.jmho |
But what's the fun in that? The WC I just got was already changed to a distributor and alternator, and I'll be changing it all BACK to the way it came from the factory. I don't take the easy way. It's all in the details that make a good restoration. Plus that "New" stuff don't look correct on a antique tractor, JMHO. Unless you're making a pulling tractor, then all bets are off. I haven't got into that yet though, LOL!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:05pm |
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Jacob,
Being that I'm a Fairbanks dealer and rebuild F/M Mags (and other makes) its easier to explain anything you want to know on the phone when it comes to the impulse area. There are quite a few things to cover in this area to make sure everything works as it should. Give me a call tomorrow, or at your convenience, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have or walk you through anything. Its not rocket science, but there would be just to much typing for all the things to check....
Steve@B&B (973) 632-5596
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:09pm |
morton(pa) wrote:
And my opinion is to keep the mag, fiddle with it till it works, and be able to say YOU CAN DO WHAT OTHERS CANT! Thats what I did! Plus, should you ever decide to run your tractor without a battery, it will still start with a mag. If you have a distributor, you must have a good battery. You would not believe how handy that is...
But I will also say, don't take it apart until you know what you need to do clearly. Mag's are very finniki, and you can easily screw things up that you don't need to. Be cautious when taking it apart, and find out what needs to be done first. Get it done and don't fool with anything else, and don't be frustrated if you find out something is broke that you can't fix. |
You got it Morton! Having a tractor that doesn't NEED a battery is awesome!
And yep, I understand the "tread with caution around mags" theory. That's why I'm asking these questions. But this particular mag is already not working, so I figure we have nothing to loose while trying to get it to work, LOL!
I already have 2 "parts" mags, after finding out they were missing parts as well. But they came with another tractor, so no money lost. Maybe out of all 3 I can get one good one.
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:15pm |
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pankey, How would your idea work on my 38 B and 35 WC? there is no battery, no generator. Can you hook up a solar panel and run only in daylight? LOL
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 9:22pm |
Steve in NJ wrote:
Jacob,
Being that I'm a Fairbanks dealer and rebuild F/M Mags (and other makes) its easier to explain anything you want to know on the phone when it comes to the impulse area. There are quite a few things to cover in this area to make sure everything works as it should. Give me a call tomorrow, or at your convenience, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have or walk you through anything. Its not rocket science, but there would be just to much typing for all the things to check....
Steve@B&B (973) 632-5596
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Thanks for the offer Steve, I'm sure I'll take you up on it one day, but I'll have to do it when I have the mag in front of me (it's back home). I sure appreciate your willingness to help though, thanks again!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 2:38pm |
HA! I fiddled with my magnetos today. I got my newest junkyard mag last weekend. Parents and me met in the middle to move my sister from college (Grand Forks), and today I had a chance to fiddle with it. I have three "parts" mags and between the three I used the best of the parts to get one working!
The newest one has impulse issues. The impulse needs to be taken off and fixed, and I don't have a puller here to do that. SO, I took the coil out of it, and put it in the better of the other two mags I have, since they are both missing the coil, but have good impulse's.
Put the coil in, meshed the gears up as per the manuals say, and hooked up a wire and spark plug. Since I didn't have a guinea pig to hold the plug, I grounded it to the mag housing and spun the impulse over by hand. Snap and spark! Woo ho! I've at least got spark. And at all four plug holes no less! I'll have to take it back apart now and clean it up and fix a few other little things, but I think I have a keeper. Maybe if I have time next weekend, when I go home, I'll have to try putting it on one of my tractors and see if it all works. Don't know if I'll have time for that tough. I want to get Molly running first, that is my priority. That and get Lil' Allis going for the year and work her some. I could tell her carb was getting gummed up last fall from lack of use. Needs to clear her throat with a good workout. Maybe I'll hook her to the buzz saw and cut some slab wood up.
Well, I'm just excited, and wanted to share, mags really aren't that mysterious once you know a few things. Not that I'm an expert yet, far from it. Any further advice welcome.
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Dave(inMA)
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 3:10pm |
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Jacob, you already know more about mags than I do! Congrats on getting this far - it's a great feeling when you can apply knowlege to a challenge and not only get over the challenge but add to the knowlege as you do it.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Dick L
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 5:07pm |
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Thats the way to go kid. You have the idea. that is how you learn. Dig in and look at each part and by thinking it thru will tell you how each part has to look and work to get the response needed. I don't use a puller to take the drive off. I screw the nut off flush with the shaft. put a screw driver under the edge of the drive and pry down with one hand and whack the end of the shaft and nut with a brass hammer. It is on a taper shaft and pops off kinda easy with out any damage. One thing that keeps the impulse from catching some of the time is the pawls get the corners that catch on the stop pin get rounded off. I have filed some square to make them work and have also put a dab of weld on the corners and ground them back. I have rebuilt probly a dozen or so of them and never bought a new part. I have bought a bunch of cheap used magnetos in the past which gives me a place to hunt for parts. I bought a box with several magnetos at an auction for a coupla bucks one time.
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 5:17pm |
Dick L wrote:
I don't use a puller to take the drive off. I screw the nut off flush with the shaft. put a screw driver under the edge of the drive and pry down with one hand and whack the end of the shaft and nut with a brass hammer. It is on a taper shaft and pops off kinda easy with out any damage. One thing that keeps the impulse from catching some of the time is the pawls get the corners that catch on the stop pin get rounded off. I have filed some square to make them work and have also put a dab of weld on the corners and ground them back. |
Ahhh, I should have thought of that. The "whack" method. I've used it many times before, just not in a mag. I'll give that a try. I know something is wrong with at least one of the dogs. I think the little spring to keep it in is either off, or broken, because the one is floppy and you can see where it has been run with it not operating correctly, and had worn a ring around the inside of the magneto casing.
So once I get it off and maybe fixed (depending on what is broke, etc...) How many turns does one "wind up" the "clock spring" of the impulse?? to test it. etc....
With a few more misc parts, I may be able to eventually get a second of these mags in working order. I'll be keeping an eye open at the swaps this summer, LOL! Thanks guys!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Dick L
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 5:33pm |
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After you get the spring in place over the shaft I only give it one 360 degree turn past the key. It may end up being more that one full turn but is enough when the magneto drive winds it tighter to spin it for spark. I wound one two turns one time and and it worked for a while and the end of the spring broke. Could have been a bad spring to start with but I have not gave any two turns since.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 5:50pm |
If you're far enough apart that you have the drive off, go a step further and recharge the magnet. There are magnet chargers out there and you could build one if you had the machine shop tools, or you can do it the poor mans way like I do.
Wrap one of those bubble packed spools of 16ga wire as tightly and neatly as you can leaving the inner end of the wire out where you can get to it. I use a 10 amp power supply and give it about 5 seconds on time. Put it all back together and you're good to go. I have a large assortment of Wisconsin air cooled engines that all use the same basic magneto found on a tractor. Wisconsin engines are notoriously cantankerous starting and many times recharging the magnet in the magneto makes a difference.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Dave(inMA)
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 6:30pm |
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Brian's comment about Wisconsin engines reminds me of a question... we have a 24T JD baler with a 2 cyl Wisconsin on it. It starts okay - not great - when cold and is a bear to start when hot. Is the performance of a magneto temperature-dependent? Or does this suggest another problem?
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 22 May 2010 at 8:08pm |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Wrap one of those bubble packed spools of 16ga wire as tightly and neatly as you can leaving the inner end of the wire out where you can get to it. I use a 10 amp power supply and give it about 5 seconds on time. Put it all back together and you're good to go. |
Could you clarify this a bit please? Would you happen to have any pics? I'd be willing to try this some day, I have nothing to loose! Sometimes I'd kinda dumb until I understand exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, so feel free to explain it to me as if I know NOTHING! LOL! Thanks a bunch!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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