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OldSchoolRecovery 
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 Topic: H3 dozer update
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 at 10:08pm |
Had a chance to dig into the H3 I picked up at an auction.
Engine stuck, I put a battery in it, replaced ground cable, anyway, turn to start, fan moves about a quarter of an inch, and then back. Soaked 24 hours with PB Blaster and Carb cleaner (contains acetone) so far. Hoping it may free up without pulling head, etc. Will give a couple more days. Me thinks its number two as spark plug had rust on it. FWIW, the plugs where new, never run.
Second, the left steering clutch lever is (was) stuck forward position. I looked into the brake adjuster holes and the left box was half full of water, right was dry. Looked under machine, right plug was out. Took left plug out and drained out about 4 gallons of water, no oil, which is good. Anyway, gave the left steering clutch lever a yank (harder than before) and it freed up. Probably take the cover off the box and give it a shot of blaster.
The tag (if believeable) said stored insice for many years, not run since put away. It did however sit outside at the auction site for at least a month and we did have a couple torensial rainfalls during that time. Still can not believe that much water found its way inside there, but no cracks from freezing, so I think it should be all right.
For future reference, is it ok to run with out he plugs??
For now, wait out the frooze cylinder..
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 13 Nov 2015 at 10:10pm |
That would be "froze" not frooze.....
cb1
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DiyDave
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Posted: 14 Nov 2015 at 4:50am |
Ya never knoow it might be frooze real good... 
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Randaleky
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Posted: 14 Nov 2015 at 8:39am |
leave plugs out unless you are working in water area ie creek, swamp etc. left clutch will probably be ok once water is drained and unit is worked a little.
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 14 Nov 2015 at 4:21pm |
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 14 Nov 2015 at 4:22pm |
So, day three. No movement yet. Got called into work tonight, so now probablly Wednesday if no movement will pull head..
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 10:27pm |
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Took the motor apart today.
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 10:29pm |
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Trying to load picture..
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 10:33pm |
Well, not very successful.
Anyway, two and three pistons stuck to sleeves. You can see the sleeves move up and down when toggling the start switch.
Rocker arms and shaft look the worst from condensation rust.
Probably replace all four piston sleeve assemblies and rod bearings..
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 10:34pm |
And send the head out to get freshened up, etc..
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 12:59am |
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 1:00am |
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 1:01am |
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 1:02am |
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 1:03am |
Hit or miss on the pictures, but here are some.
cb1
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Eric B
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 3:55pm |
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That head looks good...freshen up is a good thing. Depending on how much you want to play around...you could probably get the engine nicely loosened up for good running but if you're looking for perfection - only new parts will do. If the "stuck position" is high up in the liner you'll be able to clean it up nicely. With bolts and flat bar you can lock down the liners that want to come up. I had this same thing on a 201 cu. in. The piston stuck position was a little too low on the liner. After getting freed up and started that piston/cylinder had too tight of a clearance on engine warm up resulting in a bearing knock. Other engines came back to life ...no issues or oil consumption.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 4:43pm |
I see where I can get single piston sleeve kit for less than a set of 4. And I can get all of the parts individually cheaper than a complete set, so I may just replace whats needed, etc.
There is absolutly no ridge on one and four, two and three have enough pitting, that I would not want to use again, so I may just change out two and three. Neighbor is a machinist, may have him measure one and four and go from there.
cb1
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Ages Cat
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 4:52pm |
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We recently removed a stuck engine from a D grader. The cam lobes were rusted, the lifter faces had rust, the cam gear, several pistons were stuck in the sleeves and the crankshaft was cracked about 150 degrees of the circumference. When you tear down a stuck engine, it is a pandoras box. The H3 may have been parked due to low oil pressure and if that is the case, then it is cam bearings, mains, rods , etc. Unless you completely dis assemble it, you won't know what you have. Our HD-3 is my favorite tractor and since these are so much fun to own and operate, you want it to be dependable. The engine is the heartbeat of any tractor. You want it to be beating on all four.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
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DiyDave
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 5:53pm |
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Kinda looks like it was sitting out in the weather, with no rain cap on the muffler...
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 8:20pm |
Depending on the plug size of the rear case (HD4 was 2") If these are the same I would find some 2" barrel bung plugs and install - drill several 1/4" holes for drainage but small enough to exclude mice
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 10:23pm |
I like that, sounds good.
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 10:26pm |
 DiyDave wrote:
Kinda looks like it was sitting out in the weather, with no rain cap on the muffler... |
It had a muffler and rain cap, however, and automotive oval muffler with rolled end cap that actually held water, etc. So, Im thinking some of that water found its way into two and three.
The stock muffler has a molded end as you know.
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 10:34pm |
Ages Cat wrote:
We recently removed a stuck engine from a D grader. The cam lobes were rusted, the lifter faces had rust, the cam gear, several pistons were stuck in the sleeves and the crankshaft was cracked about 150 degrees of the circumference. When you tear down a stuck engine, it is a pandoras box. The H3 may have been parked due to low oil pressure and if that is the case, then it is cam bearings, mains, rods , etc. Unless you completely dis assemble it, you won't know what you have. Our HD-3 is my favorite tractor and since these are so much fun to own and operate, you want it to be dependable. The engine is the heartbeat of any tractor. You want it to be beating on all four. |
I understand your post, however, that could be a endless $$$$ rathole. I in the past have allready stuck 7G's into a 3G machine if you know what I mean.
I would like to know what else is wrong or weak with the machine besides the motor. For the limited use it will provide (its a hobby for me) I will probably put two piston liner sets (90 bucks each), couple gaskets and a carb kit and see what happens.
Three hundred bucks onto the 1000 original price wont put me too far in the hole, just to see what I have.
cb1
Edited by OldSchoolRecovery - 16 Nov 2015 at 10:34pm
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JC-WI
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Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 11:14pm |
Old school, Looking at the pics, it doesn't look that bad., just might take a little more soaking as in filling those stuck cylinders and then wait a few day, them come back and tap on them with a wooden block on top... might come loose easier than you think.... and maybe harder than I thought. but it might surprise you how good the pistons are... and as for the liners, maybe just polish them up a bit and blow them out and use them.... if pitted severely, than forget that idea.
Ages cat made a comment..."The H3 may have been parked due to low oil pressure and if that is the case, then it is cam bearings, mains, rods , etc. " If that motor had low oil pressure, check the intake screen in the sump, check the bypass valve, and oil pressure springs and the biggest one is the little oil pump that is bolted to the back of the engine, it has 2 scrawny little springs that hold the vane blades apart, and had to replace those springs one time because they were next to disintegrated .
I just broke loose a D7 that the coffee can on the exhaust had holes in it and those holes were directly down the pipe... Old Cat had been there so long that the tree growing up in the frame was 15 years worth of rings on it at 3 ft up.
Broke it loose, fired it up and drove her out to where we loaded it.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 10:40pm |
Am going to make a plate and push down (with screws) on both piston at the same time as they are both stuck and they both travel together. I previously thought one would be coming up and the other down. If I can break them free and push them down I will evaluate the sleeve finish and go from there.
cb1
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 10:40pm |
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I will lathe up some pucks to push against the piston tops etc..
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OldSchoolRecovery
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Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 10:42pm |
Maybe even some pictures if I remember as I go..
Deerhunting starts Saturday, so this may be a week or two..
cb1
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Eric B
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Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 12:30am |
OldSchoolRecovery wrote:
I will lathe up some pucks to push against the piston tops etc.. |
What I found very effective in loosening the pistons was using the air-chisel on top of one of those "pucks". Using a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic trans. fluid is awesome for loosening the pistons...just let it sit on top for a few days before you "harass" the pistons :-)
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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JC-WI
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Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 11:55pm |
Yup, deer huntin starts saturday... but you got a few minutes at noon and then a few minutes after dark... unless ye gets lucky and bag some of them big bucks out your way. An then you shoulda had the H3 cat runnin to drag em out of the woods or swamps. LOL
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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michale34
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Posted: 20 Nov 2015 at 7:49am |
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I had a old john deere 400 backhoe that was stuck like that water ran down the exhaust I used brake fluid to brake them loose
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