427435?

CUMMINS WAS ONE.   I saw a 7000 series with a 555 cummins in it on test - hold over from the 440's. They needed something that was higher hp and less money than a new AC engine budget wise. I am sure when AC let word out it was considering alt engines, just like a puppy dawg in heat , the sales men from every mfg was on the doorstep....

pretty neat to learn stuff like that from the End Times. got any other interesting facts?

DougG wrote: What did a complete 301 or 426 diesel from Harvey cost ?

I don't remember the exact prices, but the transfer prices got determined annually between the general managers of the Tractor Division and Engine Division and Roy Ulner (president of the ag equipment group).  The price was supposedly based on $/hp based on what the general market was charging.  That of course, led to a lot of arguments discussions between the two division.

What I remember was that the Harvey prices were between $35-$37 per hp and the prices from Komatsu were around $26-$27 per hp and Cummins was around $30/ hp.  When you multiply around 3000 tractors x an average of around 110-120 hp by $5-10, it gets to be a very big number.

a "red" Allis? whew!

AC 426 power wrote: 427, I read somewhere that Allis and International Harvester had talks of merging but noting worked out because they were 2 nearly bankrupt company's any truth to this? Would have neat to have seen a IH 400 series engine behind a 8000 series style Allis with a powershift, were Allis lacked in engine technology IH excelled, and were IH lacked in transmission technology, Allis excelled in it, it would have been a marriage made in heaven right?  Too bad both were broke

The only place I've heard that is on the internet.  That doesn't say it couldn't have happened, but both had good tractors and combines and neither had the money to buy the other out.

I was involved on the periphery when Deutz came around.  I met with one of their engineers to look into how hard it would be to put a Deutz engine in an West Allis tractor while the higher ups meet separately.

427435 wrote: AC 426 power wrote: 427, I read somewhere that Allis and International Harvester had talks of merging but noting worked out because they were 2 nearly bankrupt company's any truth to this? Would have neat to have seen a IH 400 series engine behind a 8000 series style Allis with a powershift, were Allis lacked in engine technology IH excelled, and were IH lacked in transmission technology, Allis excelled in it, it would have been a marriage made in heaven right?  Too bad both were broke The only place I've heard that is on the internet.  That doesn't say it couldn't have happened, but both had good tractors and combines and neither had the money to buy the other out. I was involved on the periphery when Deutz came around.  I met with one of their engineers to look into how hard it would be to put a Deutz engine in an West Allis tractor while the higher ups meet separately.

  Yeah I believe I read it in Heritage Iron magazine thought it was interesting, but yeah you make a real good point. 


Edited by AC 426 power - 09 May 2015 at 8:42pm

Dgrader, I agree with you on the cabs. I could never warm up to the 7000 series cabs because of the size and the sightlines. 8000 series was a huge improvement. Same BS goes on every day with business between divisions of the same company. Waiting on the go ahead of a huge job for us while two divisions of the same huge privite company argue of how much they are going to charge each other. Both want to make their numbers the best for the owners. Meanwhile a lot of business is being lost.

427435 just what all did u do at AC? sounds like you had a dream job.

acd21man wrote: 427435 just what all did u do at AC? sounds like you had a dream job.

I actually worked for them twice.  First stint was right out of college as a test engineer on farm implements at the Proving Grounds south of West Allis.  In late 1967, Allis decentralized all the engineering, and I ended up at the La Crosse works.  In 1969, they closed the La Crosse plant and wanted me to move to La Porte Indiana.  Rather than move so far away from family in Minnesota (and to get to working on tractors instead of implements), I went to work for Minny Mo in Hopkins, MN as a tractor test engineer.  Over the next 8 years, I went from tractor test engineer to project engineer for what became the White 4-150 and 4-180.  White moved out of Minnesota to a suburb of Chicago in 1976.  I looked around a bit and ended up in tractor engineering at West Allis.  Spent some time as a staff engineer for product safety and reliability and then became Tractor Design Engineering Manager in 1979.

I loved that position.  When Deutz started sniffing around in 1984 and with Allis tottering on bankruptcy, I moved on (and back to Minnesota).

427,Was it well known publicly that AC was going to fall by 1984? Or was it a shock to the ag market?

I think the handwriting was on the wall at several companies.  I remember reading that IHC was loosing over a million bucks a day!  They had just built a huge tractor plant and didn't have enough orders to run it efficiently.  I'm sure JD was sweating too but they had a fairly profitable construction equipment business plus building frames for motor homes.  They also had a lot more money in the bank then the other companies.

One time while visiting with Norm Swinford about the tractor company's having a hard time financial, and particularly JD. Norm said that, if you are a member of the family, and head of the family company, you try harder.

a red allis? i just puked a bit in my mouth...

Rather red then nasty old Deutz green lol and maybe they would have not destroyed AC like Deutz

There is no doubt that the 8000 series cab is second to none, but I kind of like my 7000 series cabs, too. Darrel