Cheap WD build

yes what you listed will work. depends on budget.   countless combinations, covered many times.  use the search feature or sift through back pages of pulling forum.  lots of info here

Edited by CAL(KS) - 16 Oct 2013 at 5:55pm

Ok I have done a lot of reading and I think I am worse off than I was. All I can seam to find is a bunch of online fighting. I am an allis chalmers collector that is in search of an engine recipe for either my 1935 WC that has a wd45 engine in it already, or a stock 1951 wd that is currently stuck so needs engine work anyway. I am wanting to build both at some point but I think the WD will be first since the WC is an ok puller already.

I am looking into the WD block with a WD45 crank stroked, Farmall H rods, Chevy 400 pistons and some sort of a cam. But that being said I have never tried a performance build on a tractor so I am looking for input from those who have. I have no idea how that combination can come together or if it can.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

wi50 had some rotating assemblies for sale recently. Proven combos that are winning pulls. I'm sure him and a couple of the other experienced builders will pop up soon.

Welcome to the forum.

You need to figure out what you want and what you want to spend.  None of it is to cheap, and it only ever costs the difference to do something else.  That said, Farmall H rods work well, I have some Herculees rods that work well.  But do you stroke to XXX or XXX and go with a billet rod, there it's only the difference in the price of the rod, the crank work costs the same.  Or do you just stroke your crank, use some of the parts you already have over again and build something? 

Do you run a replacement sleeve and use it as is?  Bore it slightly to use an automotive piston?  Or put in larger sleeves....again it only costs the difference.

 

None of it will really matter when you spend all your money boreing and stroking a shortblock assembly and are to cheap to put good rods in it and they fold up, or are to cheap to spend money on the induction package to feed the engine.  I see to many fella's think that they need this huge engine and then don't realize that it needs air to run.

 

People call all the time and want to build something but lets face it, add it up and it'll be more than you think.   You're thinking CHEAP and you want to swap parts around and use the Farmall rods, let me lay this out for you

 

Farmall rods, $100 for core rods at the salvage yard

$300 for me to put them on the turn table, clearance them, grind them, clean up the edges, tap the boltholes out, countersink capscrews for rod bolts to clear, grind them, make bushings, balance and size both ends.  You have no idea how much time this takes, if it's not worth $300 then try it yourself  I spend many hours per rod by the time it's all done to make them fit.  I keep saying that I'll never do any more sets because they take to much time and the billet rods are so easy. 

 

You could use another rod, then buy a custom piston.... the rods are cheap in the end with off the shelf pistons.

 

Crank stroke $850, balance $75

 

Block line bore $150

cam grind $200

New cam bearings, rod bearings, main bearings, gasket set....$300

Set of pistons, sleeves, boreing, honeing, new rings, $400

 

So your cheap motor just turned into what?  About $2300 or so give or take.

 

But it's not going to matter if you spent $500 or $5000, your head is still in need of some serious work.  I've spent enough time on the flowbench and luckly I can use some cheap and common parts when putting different valves and springs in the head, but I've still got to buy parts, cut seats, install different exhaust seats, mill flat, spend many hours  with a die grinder and a carbide grinding and porting, sanding and then touching up the seats when finished, cut the valves correctly and clean up and assemble.  It takes $600 (with a good share of that in raw out of pocket expense) to fix up a head decent, at that I really don't make enough $$ at it to even want to do it, lucky I do enough of them that it goes fast. 

 

Now everyone wants a carbuerator, so find a core, clean it up, swap linkage to work for the Allis, bore, make custom venturi, deo epoxy work to improve airflow.  You're looking at a $350 piece when it's massaged into a finished product.  Or you can clean up your old TSX464 and try, but it'll flow about half the air you need and you can give up most of your power.

 

Manifold, I get to machine a new neck and flange out, cut the old manifold apart, weld, grind, put it in the mill and surface it off, cut holes in the back side to allow me to get inside and port it correctly, it doesn't take long to spend many hours of time, if I sell one it's $200 to do the work.

 

You want a set of Murphys roller rockers?  Last  I checked you're looking at a little over $400 to have a set.

 

Put electronic ignition on, new cap and rotor, good set of plug wires, another $150 give or take.

 

So another $1700 gone

 

Yep a cheap motor takes $4000 to put togather by the time it's "turn key".  It only costs another $2000 total to build a verry large engine.   Billet rods run about $900($500 more than junkyard rods), boreing the block, large sleeves, boreing the sleeves, power hone, large pistons (there's many stocked parts that work well) and the rest of the costs are about the same, different parts but it really doesn't matter.

 

Or you can spend a little money on the head yourself, spend a little time on the manifold, put some WD pistons on stock rods with a WD45 crank, put it in low gear and have some fun for $500.

 

The problem is weather I build a 295 cid engine or one over 400 cid I alwayse end up with more parts, to sell those parts I have to build another engine as people just don't seam to want to do anything themselves or have any local shops that can do the specialized work to make things fit.  So I've got lots of cheap parts on the shelf, different combinations.  I'd love to sell parts for someone who wants to work a little bit on their own and build something.  So I've got billet rods, 6" stroke crank, Farmall rods, Herculees rods, 4.6 bore pistons, 4.155 bore and sleeves, 4.28 bore parts on hand.  But everyone wants something different or has a different set of rules and mostly a different budget. 

 

I built my engine for the WD45 on the cheap.

Free early D-17 engine

$150 line bore

I made sleeves from junk

$200 or so to bore the sleeves and deck the block

I did the head for $400 out of pocket expenses for a verry nice head with re-fabricated intake ports that will flow about 50% more air than a regular ported head.  It takes a lot of time.

Custom pistons from Diamons, gas ported, light, custom dish design, Total Seal gapless rings $750 for 4 pistons

Billet rods, $175 for materials, $600 in the CNC time, bushings, hardware, sizeing and honeing blow about another $125 or so...$900

$850 labor for a 6" stroke crank

I balanced the parts, no cost, I ported the head, no cost, I took the time to make everything fit and clearance it, again no cost out of pocket anyway.  I still add up $3250 in expensis and I have not given myself anything for my time, shop supplies, running around and I haven't put a manifold, carbuerator or rocker arms, ignition or camshaft in it yet.  Those parts are laying around here but add up pretty quick.  I priced it the other day to someone adding some for the core engine value, core parts value, cam, and makeing the sleeves...It got to expensive in a hurry. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wi50 - 17 Oct 2013 at 12:25pm

cheap 392 ci build $8500 turn key 440 cubic inch build 12 grand.
with a air density of .0719 and a wc motor load rpm of 1300 a 140 hp is reality at the pto.

Edited by jpankey - 17 Oct 2013 at 8:42pm

Cheap = always wanting more.... I started on a tight budget, done some custom work last summer, and invested that money in a E gleaner motor, aka, D-17 engine. Built it with custom pistons, didn't know about the 170 pistons making the compression they would at the time. I used the combine carb. with some mods, I had a friend work the head, I know there were valves put in buit don't know what. I finally added a custom cam, had around 1200 bucks in it. I put the 16.9x34 full cut tires on and it would power out in the 4250 every time and on any track. In the 3500, 3750 it worked perfect. Those classes around here are fading out, without competition it's no fun. I want to move up. I need more motor... Always wanting more.... I suggest you do this build once, as you can, it will be worth it.

LOL!!!!  i was thinking on hiring a guy to throw weights ! I have done lots of motorsports over the years and I can say tractor pulling is a drug of its own . i will never regret pulling like I do circle track racing...damn waste of time,money,gas!!

Ok I thank everyone for responding to my question. I guess more to the point instead of using the word cheap, budget minded might be more appropriate. For example stroking a crank for a WD vs. using a WD45 crank if that makes a difference. Cost vs. return is more of a concern than overall price.

This will be a long term project, but I am trying to build a game plan so I know what parts to gather for the build.

In one of the responses to my post I read that 170 pistons can be used on a WD45 crank. What are the pros and cons to that.

I have restored several Allis Chalmers tractors and have several more in the waiting room so to speak. My thought is to build a farm stock puller and work up into the open class. So that being said for now I think I would be better off starting with a mild build maybe just improving on what Allis themselves did.

Cost vs return, sometimes I use a D-17 crankshaft which is 4.5" stroke, I typically have them welded to 6" stroke and run a billet rod which makes assembly a breeze.  There's further to go but it's at the sacrafice of rod angle which is important.  I use a small block Chevy 2" crankpin diameter, 1.985" (if my memory is correct anyway).  So for all practical purposes I'm takeing a 4.5" stroke crank with a 2.375" crankpin, welding it out and re grinding for a 6" stroke with a 2" crankpin.  Lets see, I'm adding 1.5" stroke and grinding way into the original crankpin going with a small diameter crankpin, there isn't much left of the original crankpin when it's done.

Mlpankey owning interest in a couple of machine shops gets to see many different ways the industry attaches sleeves into blocks , jugs etc. His adoption of fastening a sleeve into the 226 block from the motorcycle industry has really opened up the bore size boundary limitations with knowledge of the leroi air compressor that's a 226 inch front four cylinder and the back two cylinders having 5 inch pistons has made his machine shop capable of installing the largest bore known among 226 allis builders with easily removed sleeves so that the owners have the option of refurbishing that special grown favorite block pullers hate to loose.

Frappe' !? Did that even begin to make sense to you? I bet he sounds the same way when hes drunk..

I have the a wd with a diesel rear end e motor with 4.125 flattops never power out in 4500 on s il clay. Have pulled 5000 several times over 6 years never powered out in there either