Really frustrating

I ordered my 6850861 pump repair kit from dieselenginepro.com out of Beloit in August, should have been here while I was on vacation but did not show so I called them last week.  The subcontract supplier was to have it in 10 working days from order so they called them, lead time went to 25 working days so it should have arrived yesterday but still no good.  Called them back today, they checked supplier, still not good as "they received bad castings" and lead time went to indeterminate so I think I am being stalled to a not going to get it level.  Have paid for it, they have the funds and still nothing so I grow a little impatient but will wait a few more days time to see what transpires next.  Took the old unit apart, absolutely shot, over .060 clearances most everywhere, some in excess of .100, gooves are really bad on the gear ends and no way to reassemble as no kits for seals anymore.

I am already working in that direction but have also paid for this pump in front, non-refundable, so would be money down a drain to let it go.  Am trying to locate a usable set up for an interim so I can at least use the machine.

Guys: Maybe if all of get behind this we could solve this pump dilemma.  I am beginning to think about hydraulic houses near airports may have a solution.  DMiller can you dredge up the original thread with the pump number, if memory serves it was a Barnes Unit? 

I have written Hector to see if he still has the 7099511 pump and if it is functional as mine isn't, I may get by with it until I come up with a more permanent fix.

Hi Orin, yes paid on CC but over a month ago now, already called and as payment made and accepted on a bill too late save for a warranty or failure to produce a product and with quotes to get it to me they will not refund until excessive time is arrived.  Spoke with the parts counterman, he said if cancel now they would refund except a 15% fee so I am leaving it set a little longer, one can hope it does come and function, he also stated the supplier cancels and I get full refund.  Biggest issue as to install of something else is region of the machine it sits, cramped, hard to work in, under the injector pump and little room to spare for size change, I do not wish to get something I cannot make work then not be able to sell for what is in it and go to another then another, experimentation here is and will be expensive.

may be a shot in the dark but worth a try

Edited by CAL(KS) - 23 Sep 2012 at 10:26pm

On a New Holland pump for my 785 Skid Steer it was a Cesna pump and only NH which wanted $1300 for the pump . I found through hyd shop they could get same pump for $600 but shaft was wrong , easy choice order that pump and use old shaft pressed into new pump for $100 , same as relief valves were $200 each through NH but found same valve used for other application for $75 each . 

I am already looking that route, have a blank piece of stock for the head piece just have to get a small enough/big enough pump to do the job and awaiting Monday to get with my hydraulics supplier to acquire a pump if the designed to fit system does not show.  The main issues being dimensions for install(piss poor location for re-routing anything), common suction to two deliveries, then the 2.3-4gpm at around 500 psig at 1200 rpm and the rotation direction.  Pumps are available but the many drawbacks as to conversion loom heavy in the fore front.  Too much pump and it will overheat the oil cycling it too fast through the system, too little and it will die just as this one.

Haldex finally gave in, they do no longer build a pump of such low volume to pressure, lowest rate they could offer was 15gpm at 1200rpm at 1800psi, I am seriously afraid to install that on the tractor, especially at the $2780 price tag for a tandem pump.  Dimensionally it probably would install but is over 14" in length without the adaptor coupling head.

I'll have to admit here, that I've been working with hydraulic systems for a long time... not only re-engineering others, but engineering my own, and I've never seen anything cut loose on the PRODUCTION world (meaning, not military aircraft, naval, or space) that was so finicky that a special pump was the only solution.

This Barnes pump doesn't have a typical SAE 2 or 4-bolt face, but making an adapter that would couple to an SAE A 2- or 4-bolt would be nothing more than a piece of 1/2" thick plate cut, drilled, and tapped to fit both the existing hole, and studded to accept the SAE flange... It may require the faces to be made separately, with spacers to an offset distance sufficient for an adapter coupling.

Getting the proper upper pressure limit is easily defined by a pressure relief valve... but on hydraulic steering, the valve typically runs open-center, so with no steering input, the fluid flow going out of the pump runs back to the reservoir. This is effectively an unloader, the result is no pressure, but unimpeded flow. With no pressure, the only impedance to flow, is that which is imposed by restriction in the plumbing... and if properly sized and fitted, will be negligable, hence, the temperature rise will be limited to whatever friction the pump generates.

At full stall, the pump's pressure is determined by whatever the system's emergency relief is set to... and this is irrelevant to input RPM, provided the pump is actually turning, and not internally leaking so bad that the entirety of it's displacement is able to pass around the pump elements as leakage.

This Barnes pump has two outputs. That suggests to me that it either has two separate pumping sections (which would be indicated by a spacer plate in the middle of the pump body) or it has either a PRIORITY valve feature, or a flow-divider to split the pump's output between steering and brake circuits. A duplex pump would do the same as the latter, while the former would simply assure that in the event of demand in excess of the pump's output, that the system coupled to PRIORITY would get ALL the flow. I'm betting it's a duplex pump.

If I were in this situation, I would simply make the adapter, and find a pump of proper displacement:

4gpm @ 1200rpm = 924 ci/minute = 0.77ci/revolution.

Here's a bunch that're so inexpensive, that they'd even be worth a sacrificial attempt:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=hydraulic&keyword=HPSR

And they have 'em in CCW too...

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=hydraulic&keyword=HPSL

And they're in a variety of shaft types, so pick the coupling arrangement that makes the most sense. it LOOKS like your pump uses the square-drive concept similar to that used on electrohydraulic pump/tank units... not a setup I'd choose for a continuous-duty system... but the tang-adapter gadget looks like it's intended to couple to something like a notched-disk setup common to say... a magneto drive. I wouldn't choose that either, but making a coupler that'd hook up to say... a 5/8 splined hydraulic pump shaft is easy... just get a splined coupler, turn one end true, then mill a notch across it same width as the tabs on the other disk... cut a piece of plate, press it into the notches, weld it, then turn it (slowly) in a lathe to make it spin concentric... and cut back any center relief, and of course tab depth, to make it properly engage the other end.

Getting the right combination of surplus parts means the least amount of modification is necessary. In the case of your pump, it was a wierd setup, just means some creativity is in order.

Thanks for the input Dave, and yours too Merv, I have been all over this with emails, phone calls and the like.  Merv is well aware of the complex setup these little pumps were arranged for, they had "internal slippage" engineered in as put by the Barnes Haldex rep, they are engine driven so the brakes/clutches were live as soon as engine start to preclude the ramp up of the transmission systems.  Odd set up, cat is somewhat similar but works to a totally different drummer and a whole different set of parameters.

Edited by DMiller - 13 Oct 2012 at 9:28am

We are thinking of you dave. The installation of those pumps is in a hideous location. definetly a weak moment in ACs engineering dept.

Just to close out the thread, the pump "IT" had arrived yesterday, been to the farm, got it installed this morning, they sent new studs/nuts but the holes in the timing case are thru holes and I could not verify they wouldn't get too deep so I reused the old bolts.