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R.W 
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 Topic: Allis Chalmers "B" Second Gear.
Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 5:55pm |
Does anybody have a picture of the shifter on a B or C when it is in second gear. I hope that it is just not going into gear all the way and that is why it jumps out.
Thanks
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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R.W
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 12:41pm |
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Bump.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 1:09pm |
Hard to see in pic but the top of the shifter is straight up from where the casting says Tractor No..
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 1:10pm |
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The top of the shifter moves maybe 3 " from neutral to in gear.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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R.W
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 1:31pm |
Thanks! That is GOOD news! Mine only goes in about a inch, what could cause this. It is kinda hard to get it to go in an inch which makes me think someone ran it low on oil and galled up the shaft the gear slides on. Is there a common reason why it won't go into gear all the way? The man I bought it from had a mechanic go through the trans and he said that the forks looked good, but there was some tarnish in second gear???
Thanks again for your help!
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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Glockhead SWMI
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 3:55pm |
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there is a lot of mechanical leverage with the shifter. I'd be surprised if it was just "tarnished up". all the other gears seem ok?
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R.W
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Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 4:59pm |
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First and reverse work great, third is a little stiff but gets better as I use it.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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R.W
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Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 5:44pm |
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Took the shift forks cover off and they look good, but the 2/3rd sliding gear will only catch about a 1/4 inch of the upper second gear. The upper second gear is chewed up kinda bad where the two gears meet and that's why it jumps out of second. I think the reason second wont slide all the way is because there are some burs on the shaft, I don't think it's too bad but just enough to not let it slide. I will take a better look when I have some more daylight.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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Glockhead SWMI
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Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 5:49pm |
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Try and take a picture if ya can. I want to see!
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R.W
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Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 6:05pm |
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Okay, will do!
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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R.W
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 2:33pm |
Took a look today and got some pictures for you Jesse. (You better appreciate these because I broke the camera screen in the process) I did find out what my problem is, if you look at the top gear and the bottom gear. You will see that the upper is chewed up and the lower looks perfect. So someone replaced the lower and not the upper and that's why it won't mesh very easy. So only thing I can think of is to get it in gear and run it so the two will mesh.
The shifter forks look great!
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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Glockhead SWMI
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 3:10pm |
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Hopefully it won't tear up the other gear that bad. With the cover off can you slide the gears together so they are fully engaged? almost looks like that's been running partially engaged for a long time. Them older straight cut gearsets usually hold up really well. Good luck!
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ALinIL
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 4:30pm |
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RW - Don't know how much you use the B. You might try removing the burrs with a dremel and a 1 1/4 cutting wheel.
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R.W
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 4:45pm |
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I have thought about using the dremel with a grinding stone, but it will go into gear all the way just is very tight. There is just not much room to get the grinder in there and I have it all closed up. So I'm just going to run it for awhile with the metal treatment I have in it and see if it gets better, if it doesn't then I will use the dremel . Thanks for the help.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 6:46pm |
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I would just about bet your problem has nothing to do with the sliding gear or the shaft it is on. It looks to me like metal has been moved around enough on the top gear to eliminate the backlash. This will put all the pressure transmitted on a very small area of both gears instead of spreading it out over the whole tooth. If it was mine, I would replace that gear, or at least roll it meshed up to see if you can feel the rough surface interfering. A right angle air sander would probably clean up any burrs on that top gear and let it shift normally. JMO
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Glockhead SWMI
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 6:54pm |
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I wonder if you could mask off the area around that gear to keep from slinging metal shavings all over in there. You have to split the tractor to get that gear out right?
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R.W
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Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 7:47pm |
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Yes I think you have to split it to get that gear out.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 8:41am |
The inside of your tranny looks a lot cleaner than the one I have apart right now! What kind of paint will hold up on the inside of the castings? I got to repaint this one, once it is cleaned up.
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Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking comes repentance.
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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cmsmoke
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 11:55am |
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I think that if changing that gear is not in your plans, you should just get in there with a grinder and clean it up then flush/clean the best you can. Running it that way to smooth them will put just as many particles into your fluid. Those high spots have to rub off and go somewhere. It will also put additional loads on the bearings and the transmission case not to mention the beating the shifter, rails and shift fork will take from being hard to move in and out.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 12:39pm |
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You know, I cannot recall problems we had with the B-C transmission. Someone has really abused this one.
Let us know how it comes out.
Good Luck!
Bill Lobg
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R.W
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:08pm |
 cmsmoke wrote:
I think that if changing that gear is not in your plans, you should just get in there with a grinder and clean it up then flush/clean the best you can. Running it that way to smooth them will put just as many particles into your fluid. Those high spots have to rub off and go somewhere. It will also put additional loads on the bearings and the transmission case not to mention the beating the shifter, rails and shift fork will take from being hard to move in and out. |
Yes the teeth are chewed up, but there is not that many burs. The two gears are wore different, that's why they wont mesh. If any shavings come off they will stick to the magnet I have In the bottom of the trans.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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R.W
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:11pm |
GlenninPA wrote:
The inside of your tranny looks a lot cleaner than the one I have apart right now! What kind of paint will hold up on the inside of the castings? I got to repaint this one, once it is cleaned up. |
I was guessing that it have some rust in it, but it is spotless! I have no idea what kind of paint is in there, but I will bet it is from the factory.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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R.W
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:12pm |
Bill Long wrote:
You know, I cannot recall problems we had with the B-C transmission. Someone has really abused this one.
Let us know how it comes out.
Good Luck!
Bill Long |
Thanks Bill, I try to take the best care of it that I can!
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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Dave Richards (WV)
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:15pm |
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It's probably just my computer monitor, but that gear looks bent. Some of the teeth look a lot worse than the others and the bad one look like they are at the bent part.
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R.W
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:17pm |
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No gears are bent, it looks worse in the picture. Almost all teeth have the same amount of damage.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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Redwood
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 1:31pm |
If the gear is bent any at all the wobble motion would prevent the gear from staying in place well and will eventually damage the good gear. If it were mine I'd be afraid of the damage and cost caused by not replacing it.
I would also do everything to avoid splitting, but you may seriously want to consider that option.
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R.W
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Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 5:23pm |
I have it going in and out of gear, gets better as I use it. It is VERY quite only noise comes from the final drives.
Edited by R.W - 16 Feb 2012 at 5:25pm
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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