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wc still won't start |
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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my wc will not start with the crank. pull starts and seems to run fine. impulse spark is good. frustrating.
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BobHnwO ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Jenera Ohio Points: 693 |
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Try .020 gap on your pluds.
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Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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I did try that. no difference. Really not sure what else to try. I'm thinking I will pull the carbon and clean it out again. How do you time these old ones? So far, I just lined up tdc and number one on the fire mark on the flywheel.
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Dave Richards (WV) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fairmont, WV Points: 881 |
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GH, I had this situation once on a WC and once on a B. Each time it turned out to be the plugs. I use new plugs in engines I have rebuilt, and I blast plugs in engines that need rebuild. I know lots of guys say blasting will ruin the engine, but I use the fine grit that is recommended for this task (I think it is aluminum Oxide) and blow out the plugs well afterword. "Playground Sand" is definately bad for Plugs. I had a ford that acted the same, turned out to be the condenser.
The only other thing I can suggest is to try a couple of different timing settings on the mag. When you have the fire mark at TDC, check the mag to see that the rotor is at the timing lug in the mag. One tooth off in the internal gears could do this also. Edited by Dave Richards (WV) - 05 Oct 2011 at 8:35am |
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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well, I have a fmk mag. it is a little different than the j. I am not sure what the timing lug is. I'll try swapping out some parts and see what happens.
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Dave Richards (WV) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fairmont, WV Points: 881 |
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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yeah, that's the fmj mag. mine is different. I will take a closer look tonight to see if I can see something. thanks for all the help. I want this to run right do bad
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BobHnwO ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Jenera Ohio Points: 693 |
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Assuming you have non resistor plugs and wires!
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Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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autolight 295 not sure on the wires. good spark. runs when pull started
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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As far as checking timing the fire line is to check with a timing light. If you are just inching the engine over a tiny bit at a time when number one plug fires on the compression stroke you want to see the TDC or CENTER line in the inspection hole at that instant not the fire line. If when checking this way you see the fire line you are 30 degrees off advanced. The instructions for installing the magneto on the tractor using the fire line is to let the magneto engage the slots which no can do at TDC. When installing the magneto at the fire line on the flywheel the flywheel still has to turn the 30 degrees to trip the impulse to fire the plug. After the engine starts the fire line will then be in the inspection hole because of the mechanical advance.
Edited by Dick L - 05 Oct 2011 at 12:15pm |
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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Dick, so according to what you say I am doing something all wrong. I am finding tdc and then centering the fire line in the inspection hole at the bottom of the bellhousing. Then, I install the mag with the rotor pointing at number one on the cap. If this is wrong, please let me know what I am doing wrong. thanks
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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I think your making to complicated. Myself, I check the magnetos in a vice. I install the points cap using the marked small beveled tooth up and the proper letter on the fiber gear, C normally over the marked gear. I make sure all plug wires are firing. I then snap it over until the fourth plug wire sparks,(which would go to number three cylinder) and number one is ready to spark/fire. I then put a piece of tape on the impulse so it can't turn backwards to re fire the number four terminal. The rotor will be where it needs to be if it is firing the plugs as it snaps over. I turn the engine over until I first feel pressure on number one plug hole. I don't worry about any fire line as it would not quite be to the inspection hole yet by a tad. I then install the magneto.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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That's the same as I am doing except I line up the fire mark. I think it is timed pretty good. Just don't know why it runs so good but won't start off the crank.
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Kip-Utah ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Southern Utah Points: 917 |
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Not familiar with FMK does it have the proper lag timing on the impulse coupler for a Allis? |
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HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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yes it does. I'll take a couple pictures next time I have it apart.
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Dusty MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5059 |
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You might try this, when you have it running try moving the mag a little one way then the other, to where the engine sounds the best.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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My WC has started hard since I got it back, would pop right off with a pull. It wouldn't idle worth a crap but seemed to run fine at higher rpm's. I've been trying to figure out if I have a vacuum leak or a fouled idle circuit in the carb. The other day I messed with the timing a bit. It seems like I run out of travel and have the best timing with the mag tipped against the throttle rod. It will now idle much better and start easier. I am going to have to check the timing out from scratch cause the guy that put the engine in for me was a deere guy and had never worked on an AC.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Chalmersbob ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 2122 |
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Ctucker, being a Deere guy, he probably set it up to run on 2 cylinders, but which 2. Bob |
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klyant ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2010 Location: nebraska Points: 50 |
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Do your plug wires have a copper core? if not you will have a weak spark.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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Hopefully I will have time this weekend to work on it. I have a few ideas to try. Thanks, Jesse
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Dave Richards (WV) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fairmont, WV Points: 881 |
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Question for DickL.. Is there any chance the mechanical advance on this mag is stuck in the advanced position? Might explain why it starts when pulled.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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answer... I checked that also. That was my first thought. The key was broken in the impulse mechanism. Once I fixed that, I thought I was home free. It did solve one problem, but not the hard starting.
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SandburRanch ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 27 Aug 2010 Points: 5 |
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What no tractor owner wants to hear. The no start with hand crank but starts by pulling and runs fine is an indication of low compression.
This same thing with electric crank has been happening for years. As a tractor aged the original 6 volt systems had their batteries replaced with 8 or 12 volt batteries and all was well for awhile with the faster cranking speed. And then as operation hours increased the 12 volts failed to crank fast enough to start and they had to be pulled again to start. |
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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I do not think it is low compression. I will check it to make sure though.
I think I will give it a shot of ether and see if it starts then. That may point me in the right direction. |
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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Didn't mean to point to low compression although it would be something to check if you have not. What I was pointing out about the more vacuum with the engine spinning faster was that it could draw fuel to start all the way back thru the main jet. If you put a coffee stirring straw in your mouth and pinch your nose shut and try to breath thru the stirring straw you would find it hard to get enough air to breath. If that area between the main jet is not completely clear it will not hold enough gas for the slight amount of vacuum from cranking a 1/4 turn to start the tractor. The jet is small enough that you do not get free flow in any amount thru it. It has to have ample vacuum to draw any amount of gas thru the jet. I am not saying that it is your problem. I am only saying it is one of many things that can cause hard starting when hand cranking that can or could be overcome by pulling the tractor. Just something to ponder. What works for me may not work for others but, I try to assemble all the things that could cause the problem that I am having in my mind first and then go at checking one possibility at a time and make sure it is not the problem before checking another possibility. Sometimes I find the problem in something that I have checked more than once and somehow missed. I am very sure of myself that I can find and fix any tractor problem I am having. I am not so sure of myself to think that I would not have missed something the first or more times I already checked if I have not found the problem.
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Glockhead SWMI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: South West Mich Points: 2657 |
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I agree. That's why I am going to pull the just rebuilt carb off and do it again. lol... It can't be anything major. It runs so good. Bringing home an Allis trip plow for it tomorrow.
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