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ATF vs 821XL?

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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ATF vs 821XL?
    Posted: 20 hours 58 minutes ago at 3:26pm
Does anybody know why Allis specified automatic transmission fluid in the hydraulic and hydrostatic drive systems of combines instead of just using regular 821 hydraulic fluid? Would it be detrimental to use hydraulic fluid instead of automatic transmission fluid? I figure there has to be some reason they did it.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 9 minutes ago at 4:15pm
i dont know... but most trans fluids are a  5wt or 10wt oil ... while hydraulic fluids can be 20 wt - 30 wt
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 59 minutes ago at 5:25pm
Hydrostatic combine transmissions existed before 821XL was used in A-C machinery.   I call 821XL a 10W-30 viscosity and the ATF fluid a 5W or 10W viscosity. Gleaner did switch to the 821XL about 20 or so years ago but there were orifice changes made in some of the hydraulic valves and I'm sure the hydrostatic propulsion system must have some changes too. Make the change at your own risk.
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8070nc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 34 minutes ago at 6:50pm
We got a new F2 in 81 and after much use we had to have the hydrostatic rebuilt. The rebuilder suggested we change to 821 fluid. We did. No problems. I now have a L3 I run 821xl equivelent in and no problems. Just my experience
1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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SLee(IA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SLee(IA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 hours 15 minutes ago at 10:09pm
Somewhere around 40-50 years ago usually in late summer our dealer would invite all combine owners in and would have a new combine sitting in the shop. There would be a AC guy there (I think they called him a "Block Man"). He would be the guy the dealer called in if there was a mechanical problem they couldn't solve. He would walk us around the combine and point out things to look for so that we could reduce the odds of having problems during harvest.
Sorry for the long post. Anyway the question on why use ATF in the hydraulics came up.
He said they sell numerous combines into Canada and Hydraulic oil back then would cause problems at -20 to -30 degree temperatures. ATF would flow better there and would also hold up in the heat of wheat harvest in the US.
Steve
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Lynn Marshall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 31 minutes ago at 6:53am
Actually Steve, the "block man" was more of the go to guy for the dealer when ordering inventory and whole goods. He also was in charge of doing a walk around to check the lots for inventory and corresponding serial numbers. I'm sure that they had other duties as well. The guy you're referring to, I would have called a service representative or service technician.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 19 minutes ago at 8:05am
Lynn remembers it well !!   The Sales Rep for A-C had a "block" of dealers he was responsible for. He ordered new machinery (and attachments) for his dealers and kept track of inventory to see that something didn't disappear. I doubt that any blockman ever had more than 10 businesses he called on. The Service Reps had more like 25 to 30 dealers they each called on. For the whole state of Iowa there were only four service reps, whereas the sales force had eight or ten people. I remember a true story about a blockman who was taking a particular dealer's inventory from looking out the office window all the time. There was a particular 200 tractor that wasn't in his line of sight from the dealerships window. He asked where it was and was told it was out beyond the shop, and he could drive his car around to see it when he was leaving. Well, he was never fired over this deal, but the story was the tractor had been stripped of many parts. The business was in financial trouble and was on C.O.D. for their parts inventory, so the starter, batteries, tie rods, and on and on were taken from this tractor and sold over the counter to customers. The blockman didn't catch this and months later the business filed for bankruptcy. The 200 tractor was missing many more parts as time went on !!   This is why AGCO and Deere and all the others love the multiple stores model of business. They have less dealers to work with, so it takes less blockmen to cover them.
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Allis dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 46 minutes ago at 8:38am
John Deere combines use low visconisty hydraulic oil for their hydrostatic drives. 
I'm guessing the lower viscosity automatic transmission mgiht have the same purpose.
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