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City ‘smart’ meters for water…….

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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: City ‘smart’ meters for water…….
    Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 8:53pm
Anybody have them if you have municipal water? Good, bad, and the ugly about them?
Have heard and seen news stories from neighboring cities about billing issues, exorbitant usage fee’s etc.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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KJCHRIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 11:05pm
Got mine @ house in city about 15 years ago, 2 guys in basement about 1 hour to install no issues, water cost stayed about the same as with older meter. Before city employees (I think 4 total) had to walk near the meters to get the reading. So 2 guys less on city payroll and 2 transferred to helping with street work & a couple less pickups. 
 Our R E C @ farm when updating their "switch makes sense system" went to similar for electric about 7-8 years ago. Now they don't have 2 F T & 1 P T guys in pickups driving around several counties reading meters 5 days a week. Got rid of 3 4x4 pickups & 2+ men. 
 Both systems send useage data at to a central computer.  
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 11:06pm
we are rural but have "city water"... they use to come by and read the meter every month.. About 10 years ago they put on a "SMART MONITOR" that sends out a signal on what your usage is.. No more Manual Labor........... Rural Electric company did the same thing.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 12:31am
The term 'smart meter' is a bit of misnomer... there's nothing of any exceptional intelligence, it's just a meter that has a short-range data transmitter.  There's a receiver unit in a vehicle, when they drive down the neighborhood, it gathers up all the meter readings and transmits them to the utility's computer system for billing.

It is 'smart' in that it allows a part-time wage-earner to accomplish an entire city read in the time it would have taken 100 walking readers to do a couple neighborhoods.  To make things even more 'streamlined', many utility companies have their billing system set up to process based on 'estimation' on their regular billing date, and at the next billing date, they add or subtract from that estimation based on whatever usage volume change occurred at the read date.

The way they accomplish this is pretty simple... they have a year or two's worth of readings, and their system computes a 'daily average'.  Let's say that your daily average for a given weekday (like a Monday) is 200 gallons, and that's about same per day 'till Friday, when you might use 350, and 500 on Saturday, 400 on Sunday... like you're watering flowers, washing a car, or just taking a few more showers after doing yard work...  so the billing system says your meter was at 21843 on Saturday the 1st... and they're billing you through the following 30'th, they say the daily average of all those days would likely put you at so many mondays, tuesdays etc., on the average... and they bill you for that.  Now, halfway through the month, they get a reading that says you're slightly LESS by THAT day, than your daily average... so they apply a little math (integration and derivation) to 'weight' the next month's daily averages.  By three-four months, with over 2 years' meter records, they'll have that bill down to really-darned-close.

UNLESS you have a leak somewhere... a running toilet, or a broken irrigation line in your yard...

in which case, the 'smart meter' really isn't about the METERING, it's about the DATA HANDLING... that averaging and weighting (it's calculus, man) is saying that your daily usage trajectory has significantly departed from your past use, and they might add a note to your bill and say that your usage is up uncharacteristically higher since say.. June... and that prompts to you consider checking for leaks, or to acknowledge that you planted 5 new trees in May, and have been diligently watering them in.
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Pat the Plumber CIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 6:59am
If your municipality or village that provides your water service has less than 50,000 population there is a one way valve in the meter. You now have a closed system and need a thermal expansion tank above your water heater for when water expands when heated
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:38am
I've seen those little tanks Pat
Doesn't the T and P relief valve provide enough protection ? Thanks
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Pat the Plumber CIL Pat the Plumber CIL wrote:

If your municipality or village that provides your water service has less than 50,000 population there is a one way valve in the meter. You now have a closed system and need a thermal expansion tank above your water heater for when water expands when heated

That must be an Illinois thing? We owned two houses in Wisconsin, both communities are still under 50,000 pop., and 1 house currently in Texas community under 50,000, and we owned a house in Midland Tx, with pop. well over 50,000, I never seen any type of tank near the water heaters.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 11:27am
UNLESS you have a well with a expansion tank to hold water and pressure - that expansion tank by water heater is a necessity . It does 2 things - controls expansion and prevents some water hammers when a valve is closed - like turning off a full running faucet . 
 The safety valve on a water heater is for emergency use ONLY in releasing temp and pressure overrun - dumping content to prevent damage .
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 5:05pm
Our rural water has one way valve at meter....have the little tank in closet at end of bath tub
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iowallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 7:58pm
The town I live in did this a few years ago. Required to do it but were very flexible on the time when scheduling with the contractor. 

A relative of mine had some issues. It was stated multiple times in the letter they sent that it was at NO COST to the homeowner to have the meter switched. Apparently they were counting on that the meter was attached to the water pipe by fittings that could be unscrewed. Theirs was soldered to the water pipes and was told that he needed to hire a plumber to add the "correct fittings" so the meter could be switched out at his cost. He repeatedly pointed out that it stated NO COST to the home owner. The contractor notified the city and the city notified him to have it fixed. The city said either fix it because it wasn't up to code in the first place or have no water if they can't switch out the meter. He had to hire a plumber to put in the correct fittings so the meter could be switched out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2024 at 4:00am
Thank goodness we are on a Great well. No sulphur or iron notable. Last home prior to the farm had Smart Meter Water and Electric, meter electronics told the supplier the time of high usage so rate could be adjusted for peak load times and off peak. The water meter was a continual read where should a mass large volume be noted a call was made to home owner where if no answer the water would be shut off and a inspection agent sent to the residence.

Several instances of cut lines by contractors this did prevent massive losses to city supply.
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