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400hp 301? |
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 7:03am |
My question isn't on how to make power but at 400 or so horsepower what weak points are going to be an issue with a 301? The bottom end is my main concern but I'm sure other things should be taken into consideration.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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Bending connecting rods would be your first concern.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Will the crank still be happy or is it time to get a custom crank made?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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We still use a stock 200 crankshaft at 1200 HP. Didn't girdle the main caps until over 800 HP.
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bsallis180
Silver Level Joined: 29 Jul 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 209 |
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Just a side note after rods use a crank drive oil pump and weld the gear rot shaft it Will spin the drive gear on the oil pump shaft.
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Beirnesy
Orange Level Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Location: Mid Western Ont Points: 351 |
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1969 220,1967 190DXT,1968 190DXT, LGT's 710,,716
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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I knew the rods weren't that great wasn't sure about the crank. Will just the 7080 injector tips be enough or will they need to be reworked?
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4663 |
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I believe Max Simpson used to sell hardened rods, but I thought I remembered reading that he wasn't doing it anymore. Anyone have any idea where to buy hardened rods?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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7080 injectors (.0148" holes) won't get you the desired 400 HP. I'd guess at least 4 hole x .0200" or bigger. What injection pump are you thinking ???
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Probably a Bosch p7100, it'll be pretty easy to get parts for and have more than enough fuel
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bsallis180
Silver Level Joined: 29 Jul 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 209 |
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If I was you and 400hp is all your after rethink that to an A pump not as much grinding and cutting to make it fit.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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I'm a machinist so I'd probably make a new front plate if it came to it
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Did the 2800 blocks have provisions for piston cooling jets or is that something that would have to be drilled
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bsallis180
Silver Level Joined: 29 Jul 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 209 |
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Have to drill them
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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The maroon 7000 tractor engine in about 1977 had piston cooling, while the older ones didn't. Don't think I've ever seen a 2800/185/ F combine engine drilled for piston cooling, but there could have been. If they did do that, they just used upper main brgs that blocked it off unless the block became a turbocharged 2900 instead.
Not hard to do. I've done 3 or 4 over the years. Hole size is important.
Edited by DrAllis - 21 Dec 2018 at 9:58pm |
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Couldn't find 3/8 banjo torque specs in service manual for the injector lines, anybody have this off the top of their heads?
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4663 |
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It's the German standard - goodentight !
I don't know how you would ever get a torque wrench on all of them.
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bsallis180
Silver Level Joined: 29 Jul 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 209 |
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I always Losses and tighten a few 5-6 times like your lapping a valve to seat the sealing washers
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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What about the nozzle nut on the injector, I'd say it's a bit more particular to a specific torque than a crush washer.
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bsallis180
Silver Level Joined: 29 Jul 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 209 |
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According to the book it’s 20-25ft.-lbs.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Trying to revive an ancient post here but I'm finally getting around to executing on this. I've since re thought things and I'll shoot for 300hp, honestly I'll be happy with 250 but now I've got more questions. Currently have an A pump getting 10mm barrels and plungers put in it, engine has allis injectors, should I go with Bosch style? It's going in a pickup so I'd like decent drivability, at 300hp what turbo do you recommend? And until I can think of any other questions has anybody put a fluidampr on a 301?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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I've used the viscous damper from a 7080/7580-N5/N6. Take a solid cast pulley from a 180/185 or F combine and machine off the front face to make a pilot hole for the damper and drill 6 holes to attach it. Bosch injectors are probably better. Holset turbo from a B-Cummins should work if it isn't too big. A waste gate would be good.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Yeah, I was looking into an hy or hx35, probably gonna end up going with the hx. Now I've thought of more questions, with the Bosch injectors how is the availability/ interchangeability of the injector tips? Will sourcing larger tips be an issue? And finally until I think of something else how much boost can the head gasket take?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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Back when I first started pulling (1976ish), we never worried or had head gasket issues on any 301's in that HP range. Somewhere/someone would have Bosch injector tips for 300+ HP to fit right on your Bosch bodies. A D-2800 has 16 to 1 pistons. A D-2900 from the 1972 era and newer (200-7000-7010-7020) are 15 to 1 pistons. These help in "bottom-end" life and piston head scuffing against the sleeve. Also makes them start a little harder.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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So will the 7080 tips not flow enough for 300 horse? I've read a few places about the 301 dropping valve seats, I don't plan on beating on it, is that something I should be concerned with?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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Unless your application is open RPM tractor pulling, I don't think valve seats will be an issue. We sometimes see exhaust temps of 1600 degrees F and that for sure will get to the valve seats in time.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Anybody got a part number for a crank driven oil pump gasket?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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74024001 from AGCO.
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Ade001x
Bronze Level Joined: 02 Oct 2018 Location: Kentucky Points: 17 |
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Something that's slipped my mind until now, will the OEM grade 8 fasteners (head, mains, rods) be happy at 300hp or is it time to upgrade?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479 |
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Bolts will be fine.
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