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rilenz 
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 Topic: generator
Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 12:10pm |
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hi everybody have a electrical question. had generator rebuilt its 6 volt have 6 volt regulator a ammeter Battery reads 6.35 before starting but when running it reads 10.0 to 19.0. It bounces around. I believe I properly acclumated it to 6 volt. Battery to field. any suggestions
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 12:53pm |
"F" is the GROUND... not connected to battery...
if you run a 6 volt generator and it is not connected to a battery... You will get 12 - 18 v output... I have tested that......... so i assume you have no connection between the "A" terminal , thru the regulator, to the battery..... Did you connect pos or negative ground ? Is your regulator setup for that polarity ? Did you short the "G" and "B" terminals together for a quick spark prior to startup ?
Edited by steve(ill) - 21 Mar 2024 at 1:00pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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rilenz
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 1:28pm |
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I will check this drawing with what I have. I forgot to mention the ammeter does not read anything. Thanks in advance
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 1:40pm |
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yes... if the amp meter is bad... or the wire is not connected... you have NO PATH to the battery.. and the Generator will put out MAX VOLTAGE... 12- 18 v.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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rilenz
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 2:28pm |
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I'll try to explain this as best I can. Battery is pos. ground. Ground on battery goes to ammeter pos. side. Ammeter neg.side goes to Bat on regulator. A on generator goes to arm on regulator. F on generator goes to Field on regulator
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rilenz
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 2:32pm |
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I assume arm and G mean the same on generator
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rilenz
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 2:54pm |
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I'm sorry I meant arm is same as G on regulator
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 Mar 2024 at 7:25pm |
YES.... "A" and "G" are the same thing..
POS ground... so you mean the NEGATIVE terminal goes to the amp meter....other terminal to "BAT" on the regulator as you said...the drawing above is correct..
if your amp meter is BAD, or you think it is... just bypass and run the "BAT" terminal of the regulator to the NEG bat post.... for a test..
Edited by steve(ill) - 21 Mar 2024 at 7:26pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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rilenz
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 9:46am |
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Hi everyone I'm going to beat this charging problem one way or another but I need advice. I have a 6 volt positive ground CA. I wired it like steve (ill) advised I put new 6 volt reg. on had my generator check out cleaned all grounds put new ammeter on but when I start it up it reads 0 then when I turn lights on it reads -15. I checked battery with volt meter before startup it was 6.22 when running it goes from 12 to 19 and eveything in between rapidly.
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kevin LA-CA
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 10:24am |
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I am assuming the 12 to 19 is voltage. If it is current, ignore the following.
Are you using a cheap digital multimeter? I have issues measuring battery voltage with mechanical voltage regulators. They don't filter spikes well generated by the points in the regulator opening and closing.
Analog meters provide better filtering. The battery should level these spikes too, but didn't in my case.
I would suggest measure battery voltage tractor off as you have. Then monitor the amp meter on the tractor as you throttle from idle to WOT and watch current level rise.
If amp meter is positive and steady, I think you are good.
If amp meter isn't steady, sounds like the f connection is poor and vr cannot control Genny properly.
My experience...
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rilenz
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 11:27am |
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yes the 12 to 19 is volts. with lights off the ammeter stays at around -1 and with lights on it stays at -15 does not vary with engine running idle or wide open
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rilenz
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 11:40am |
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I seen somewhere that if you disconnet the positive ground on the battery the tractor should stay running
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 1:05pm |
when you install a new regulator you have to take a small jumper wire and TOUCH the "B" and "G" terminals together for 1 second... That FLASHES the regulator and tells it if you are using a pos or neg ground system... ALso your REGULATOR has to be capable of operating with a positive ground.. Some are not, but i would assume a 6 v is setup for that.
The high voltage spikes COULD be the quality of your volt meter.. but at the same time your AMP meter is not working... so i would assume the regulator is not "flashed" or the generator is not putting out any voltage...
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 1:08pm |
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Another thing you can do is jumper the "F" terminal to a good ground (frame) bolt and make it SPARK a couple times when you touch the frame... That might make the regulator KICK IN when new.. When you ground the "F" it should push the regulator to FULL CHARGE for a second... sometimes that helps. You can actually leave it connected for a minute and go check the amp meter to see if you get any different charge.
Edited by steve(ill) - 10 Apr 2024 at 1:09pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 8:28pm |
 rilenz wrote:
yes the 12 to 19 is volts. with lights off the ammeter stays at around -1 and with lights on it stays at -15 does not vary with engine running idle or wide open |
Where, exactly, are you taking this voltage measurement?
As Steve mentioned above, running a generator 'open circuit' can cause it to read quite high. I suspect something isn't making connection somewhere.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 8:40pm |
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Make sure you have a good clean grounds.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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rilenz
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Posted: 11 Apr 2024 at 5:07am |
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I take the -1 lights off and -15 with lights on reading from amp meter and the 12 to 19 reading from the battery
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 11 Apr 2024 at 9:08am |
rilenz wrote:
... I have a 6 volt positive ground CA... |
We are assuming this is a stock, original third-brush type generator for a CA. My service manual shows this as originally having only a cutout relay on the generator and using the light switch which has a built-in resistor for regulation.
You have stated that you are using a regulator in conjunction with this generator, which is not a bad thing. Is there also a resistor-type light switch still in this circuit?
rilenz wrote:
I wired it like steve (ill) advised I put new 6 volt reg. on |
Again we are assuming it not marked as a 12 volt unit
rilenz wrote:
...had my generator check out cleaned all grounds put new ammeter on but when I start it up it reads 0 then when I turn lights on it reads -15... |
With the engine not running, turn on the lights; what does the ammeter indicate, and which direction does it move?
rilenz wrote:
I checked battery with volt meter before startup it was 6.22 when running it goes from 12 to 19 and eveything in between rapidly. |
I would suggest disconnecting everything at the light switch/ammeter area and just run a jumper wire from the regulator to the battery, then test the voltage at the battery, running and not running. This will narrow down the variables.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 Apr 2024 at 9:27am |
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yes... and jumper the "F" to ground for another test.. Need to determine which part is causing the problem with the AMPS .......... and remember, the VOLTAGE measurement could be the type of METER you are using.....it would be almost impossible for a generator / regulator to put out 19v if PROPERLY connected to a 6V battery.
Edited by steve(ill) - 11 Apr 2024 at 9:30am
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rilenz
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 7:07am |
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I jumped the field to ground and the amp meter did jump way up. I will be taking wire off amp meter and jump regulator to battery and then check.
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rilenz
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 7:11am |
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when I look in the back of generator i only see two brushes and no there is no resistor light switch it's just an on off switch with a seperate kill switch that goes between battery and coil
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 12:18pm |
rilenz wrote:
when I look in the back of generator i only see two brushes and no there is no resistor light switch it's just an on off switch with a seperate kill switch that goes between battery and coil |
Hmmm... a two-brush generator needs a different regulator than the third-brush type.
The third-brush type uses the third brush positioning to control the amperage and the regulator then has two coils, one to control the voltage and the other coil is the cutout relay.
The two-brush units need a three-coil type regulator, of which one coil controls the amps, one to control the voltage and the other is the cutout relay.
I am curious as to which regulator you have, it needs to match the type of generator.
Did you try turning on the lights with the engine not running and note the ammeter reading?
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 12:44pm |
Here is what I would do in this situation of not knowing if the components are correct.
1. Disconnect the generator from EVERYTHING. 2. Connect a suitable voltmeter to the battery. 3. Start the engine, let it idle at lowest practical speed. 4. Connect a jumper wire (at least 12 ga.) from battery neg. to generator Armature. 5. Observe voltmeter (it probably will not be charging yet).
6. Connect a jumper from field on generator to ground, be prepared to quickly remove it 7. If voltage rises above about 8 volts, disconnect field jumper, voltage should drop. 8. If voltage does NOT climb with field connected, slowly increase engine speed until it does. If the generator is good you should be able to find a sweet spot of engine speed that will raise the voltage level in combination with connecting/disconnecting the field.
9. If all of that checks good, then shut it down and re-connect the regulator. If it still goes bonkers then you have found the problem.
Edited by Les Kerf - 12 Apr 2024 at 12:46pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 2:55pm |
Les is right... remove the regulator and go straight to the battery.. Let the BATTERY do the regulating.. The generator / battery combo should stabalize at 7-8 volts while charging.
It does sound like you voltage regulator has an internal problem... or is the wrong type to match your generator.
Grounding the "F" and having the amp meter jump up to 12- 15 amps tells you the generator works, and the amp meter is responding.
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 Apr 2024 at 2:56pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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rilenz
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 5:29pm |
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I did turn lights on without tractor running and amp meter read neg. 6 or 8
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rilenz
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 5:34pm |
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I have a regulator that has lights, bat, field and on the other side Gen. It is 6 volt.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 9:04pm |
rilenz wrote:
I did turn lights on without tractor running and amp meter read neg. 6 or 8 |
Good. That tells us that your ammeter is good and wired correctly.
rilenz wrote:
I have a regulator that has lights, bat, field and on the other side Gen. It is 6 volt. |
I am suspicious of that regulator possibly being the wrong unit. My shop manual shows a totally different generator which uses the light switch/resistor for regulation; do bear in mind that my shop manual may be an old one that may not cover newer models.
If you verify your generator for proper function as outlined above, then either the regulator is at fault or you have connectivity issues.
Best wishes on your project ! 
Edited by Les Kerf - 12 Apr 2024 at 9:06pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 9:41pm |
So you are using the "BAT" and "F" terminals on one side and the "G" on the other side.. and nothing on the "L" terminal ??
trace your two wires from the generator and make sure you dont have the "F" and "G" (A) wires reversed..
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 Apr 2024 at 9:48pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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rilenz
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Posted: 13 Apr 2024 at 6:18am |
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I do have the L connected to the light switch and kill switch. When I get time this week I will take loose all the wiring and start over. Not hooking power from L to switches and other things youse have said. Thanks for all your advise. Hope it works out I love this tractor
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 13 Apr 2024 at 8:19am |
rilenz wrote:
I have a regulator that has lights, bat, field and on the other side Gen. It is 6 volt. |
I am still pondering on this.
If a 12 volt regulator happened to be installed in a 6 volt system it seems to me that it might behave in a similar manner to your symptoms.
The regulator will see the 6 volt battery as being under-voltage and would then attempt to drive the generator to maximum voltage (and current). The voltage limiting relay would probably not reach its limit, but the current limiting relay probably will, causing it to break the field circuit, which will then cause the current to go to zero and the voltage will drop to ~6 volts.
The voltage coil will then see a perceived under-voltage situation and will close the field circuit, once again driving the generator to maximum output causing the current limiting coil to open the field circuit, etc. etc. etc. Thus rapidly cycling the voltage high-low-high-low-high-low.
A cheap digital meter will attempt to follow those fluctuations giving bewildering readings.
I dunno. Just speculating. 
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