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jrbynf 
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Location: Kansas City
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 Topic: Loader on Allis 180/185
Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:45pm |
I would love to hear everyones experience with loaders on these tractors.
I have a 180 and just bought an Allied/Buhler 595 loader. The side rail mounts appear to be designed for the tractor specifically and it has rear suppors. The loader is really heavily built, tight, and with any bumps transfers weight to the rear axle nicely. My dad has a 185 and he has a Westendorf TA 28 on it. The TA 28 may be a little heavier built but it bounces a lot over bumps and has always felt loose. I think this was the overall design concept to put less stress on the tractor. It does not have any rear supports.
I much prefer the Allied loader.
My 180 has 28 inch tires 16.9x28 and the 185 has 30 inch tires 18.4 x 30. The 180 has pie weights (300lbs) with a ballast box (1200 lbs) and the 185 has fluid (not sure lbs) and a balast box (~600lbs). The 185 has the ROPS (500 lbs) (the gem of all Allis collectors). The 180 has 15 x 11.5 front tires and the 185 has 16 x 10 front tires.
Any advice to improve anything? What are your alls experiences? How does the 500 loader do?
Obviously the idea is to not tear these classic tractors up but to use them safely and functionally. Its too bad a hydraulic front wheel assist would be so challenging to add.
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jrbynf
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:51pm |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:56pm |
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Allied 595 loader is just a tad bigger/longer than a 500 series. If used to it's potential max rated load all the time, you'll break lots of spindles.
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jrbynf
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:59pm |
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jrbynf
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 9:59pm |
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Joe Goodwill
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Location: Souris Manitoba
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 10:18pm |
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I have had the 500 loader on two185s over the last 30 years, I agree with heavy work the spindles will be a constant headache. To solve this go to a truck wrecker yard find a front axle out of a 3 ton truck.
Cut the factory axle so that when you flip the truck axle upside down it will set right into the factory axle. When I did mine it sat right in there I just welded it in place cut the tie rods to fit and welded them up. I purchased two military grip 900-20 tires. With 25 to 30 pounds of air in those front tires you will never know it was the same loader tractor and that will be the last spindle problem you’ll ever have. The tractor is not in the yard right now and I’m not sure on posting pictures but I would recommend this to anyone wanting to use this tractor for a loader tractor.
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jrbynf
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Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 10:28pm |
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Sounds like a really good idea. Please post pictures.
I would love to put a mud hog rear axle from a combine under it. All the 180 has is a 540 PTO so my google search shows a max PTO pump at 21 gpm. Not sure if this would be enough and I am not sure how you would actuate going forward and reverse. I think just using when you lost traction with a full bucket would be very helpful.
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captaindana
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 5:12am |
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Hey Joe send a pic of that front end when you can please.
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 6:07am |
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I didn't mention I have had a 185 broken in two from an Allied 595 loader that gets used to the max all the time. Half a dozen broken spindles/hubs, knees. Got a 210 front axle under the front, so that's fixed. Then a year or so later the torque tube broke in two. It is the one and only 595 loader I ever sold or serviced the tractor. Get a wheel loader instead.
Edited by DrAllis - 26 Jun 2023 at 6:17am
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jrbynf
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:15am |
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Wow. I definitely do not intend to use it to the max.Did the broken one have the rear stabilizer bars? Thanks
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:22am |
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SURE DID !! Now it has more steel from near the top of the towers down to the rear axle too. The farther you get the bucket from the front wheels, the more leverage there is. I get the need for high reach, but it comes at a HIGH cost.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:33am |
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I have a loader on a 185, OK for hay bales but gear shifting for a loader tractor is not very smooth or handy.
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only AC orange
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Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Eastern Indiana
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:46am |
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I have a 460 AC loader on a 6060 and only problem with it is ruptured hubs (have a grapple on it and move fallen \ cut down trees).
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jrbynf
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:48am |
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I wish the loader mounts could be moved toward the rear of the tractor more, I think that would help with traction and preventing breaking the tractor in half. I think the main problem is they were designed mainly as smaller row crop tractors, not heavy loader tractors.
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jrbynf
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:57am |
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If anyone has any experience with 190/200 and loaders please chime in as well. Does it handle the loader better with the heavier rear end and larger tires? I feel like the front assembly is similar but built somewhat stronger on these tractors vs the 180/185.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 10:57am |
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I like my 185 but honestly, I wouldn't want a loader on it. Shifting gears is too finicky and over time I"d end up grinding gears. I had a lod of dirt moving to do for a bit. I bought a skid steer and love it. Now I keep the 185 nice for tractor work and the skid steer for the loader work.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 4:13pm |
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Get a tractor with mechanical front wheel assist. The front ends are heavy enough for serious loader work. Mechanical FWA is also far superior to hydro FWA. With Hydro FWA it is almost impossible to match the front wheel speed to the rears. Always too fast or too slow. Our neighbor had a John Deere 40 series with hydro FWA and hated it. Was always blowing hydraulic lines too.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:47pm |
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Models 190-190XT and 200 have the same torque tube in the middle of the tractor as the 180-185. The rear end housing is heavier and the axle housing that the loader frame can be bolted to is probably a foot lower down, which could make for a stronger structure of loader to tractor frame. BUT, where they break (if they break) is in the torque housing right in the bell housing cavity or thru the belt pulley hole.
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jiminnd
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 7:57pm |
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Neighbor had 180 with loader, don't know what brand of loader but it broke in the torque tube.
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1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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KJCHRIS
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 8:27pm |
Have run a Westendorf WL40 on AC 180 & 200 tractors over 40 years. I've never broken anything on the tractors or loader, except to replace worn hoses and reseal tilt cylinders. Has 84" bucket, bale forks and pallett forks. About 25 yrs ago I found a second set of brackets so now 2 tractors are ready for loader duty in just minutes. They make nice snow movers with a 3 pt blade added. 180 could just go thru barn sheds to clean & load manure. I've multiple times loaded out of field over 1200 6x5 bales in a summer, and also carried bales on loader & 3 pt. from lot to hay tub grinder loading several semi trailers daily. 5th gear under 1/2 throttle is fast enough to transport.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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AllisFreak MN
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 8:58pm |
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I was about to ask, is hauling a round bale on front loader and on the 3 point at the same time too much for a 170 to handle without risking major damage? Westendorf WL40 loader on it.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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jrbynf
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 9:22pm |
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We hauled hay (900-1000 lb bales for years), had to be 5000k bales with a 175 (westendorf ta 26) and 185 (westendorf ta 28) on both front and back. We did not drive slow. Idled in road gear for the most part. The loaders did not have rear supports. We honestly never had any problems. Probably just a matter of time tho. My father sold the cows a few years back and the tractors don’t see that kind of stress anymore
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jrbynf
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Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 9:56pm |
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Thanks for everyone’s responses.
The good:
Plenty of power, good overall hydraulics, ability to add a fair amount of weight to rear end, very reasonable cost of completely restored unit ~10-15k with loader
The bad:
Weak front assembly, weak torque tube, lack of front wheel assist, non synchronized transmission, no comparison to skid steer in functionality
Summary:
Ok for light duty with preferably a smaller loader (Allis 500, maybe Allied 495 or smaller westendorf like ta 26) with mandatory rear supports. Travel speed should be conservative. Shift with care avoiding gear grinding, If additional rear supports can be added it should be done if heavy work is intended. A 190/200 is likely a stouter option but unit is quite a bit bigger being more of a field tractor vs chore tractor
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Dkienzle
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Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 12:47am |
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I had a 595 on a 6080 mfwd and it would pick anything up, no problem. It had 16.9 34s on the rear with cast centers and would pick the rear end of the tractor off the ground if what you were picking up was too heavy. I would think if used hard your gonna have front end trouble with a 185.
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